as for fur vs synthetics and which uses more resources or causes more damage.
To a first approximation, what something cost is rough indicator of how “hard” is its to make.
If it cost ALOT, it eats up alot of resources one way or another.
So, as a very rough first guess, furs cause more damage than synthetics.
I’m gonna have to ask for some kind of a rational cite, there. Many many many things cost what they do for reasons other than their cost of manufacture, including but not limited to economies of scale, competition, and the Veblen effect (people are willing to pay more for what they think are luxury goods, and one of the things that makes people perceive something as a luxury good is high price). All of which demonstrably apply to fur’s high cost.
I said first approximation.
As for rational cite, do you think it actually works the other way? That overall, on average, the more expensive a product is the LESS work and resources it consumes?
No, but I do think that when considering a specific, non-average product like a fur coat, which is probably the epitome of a luxury good in most people’s minds, not to mention the socially-driven drop in demand and subsequent drop in production capacity that Rune gave an example of earlier, I don’t think it’s helpful to try a “first approximation” that fits an average product. We already know it’s out there on the pointy end of the bell curve.
Why would you expect a fur coat would cost more in resources and labor to make than a wool or polyfill coat, anyway?
I can’t speak for other materials, but I do know that collecting possum pelts is demanding and labour intensive - a “line” is fed (i.e laced with non poison) for 3 days, then the fourth day poison is laid. This is in deep forest bush / mountain regions. The carcasses are skinned onsite and carried out (and they are HEAVY when wet) then they must be dried before selling (this takes weeks). At the peak of the market, a “wild” possum pelt would sell for approx $10-$12 (NZD circa 1990) I think now a pelt goes for $8-$10 NZD.
Excellent information.
What’s a normal take for possum trapping – how many does a person bring in, say, in a month?
Do you know what the usual poison is called or what effect it has on the possums (whether they die fast or slow, in pain or knocked out)?
I had always assumed that goose down was an occasional by-product of goose as food and if something was thrown away it was the feathers, not the meat.
Who would want to throw away supralicious meat, anyway?
You could very well eat veal raised outside (I don’t know the proper English word). I was raised in a region that produces beef, and though I didn’t follow the veal in the slaughterhouse, they didn’t suffer the slightest bit during their life, which consisted in sucking their mother and later grazing and ruminating.
That’s good to know! Also, I didn’t mean to use the word “stuck” when referring to my pescatarianism. It’s a choice I made and I do not feel deprived whatsoever!
But since when do they kill the geese to harvest the down? Wouldn’t that be wasteful since down grows back?
Sure, it’s probably not the most comfortable thing and perhaps living in a pen would suck if you knew any better, but we aren’t slaughtering geese for sleeping bags, people.
Well, it is entirely possibly that some down is a by-product of slaughtering geese for food. Other down is obtained by plucking the down from live birds. Yes, it grows back, but plucking it is painful. Imagine having your hair yanked out out.
Eider ducks line their nests with down, which can, in theory, be harvested after the ducks are done with it so that may be the most humane source of down - but also an uncommon one. Eider down is very expensive.
NO COFFEE?!!!?!1 Screw that! Thank you for informing me so I can save my money.
Sorry not too much idea - my uncle n aunt used to make a living at it, although not a very comfortable one so I wouldn’t imagine that much. The poison would need to be fast acting (you can’t go looking for carcasses) but other than that not so much idea…
So, how do the Eider ducks get the down for their nests? They pluck it from their breasts. Sounds painful, eh? Masochistic ducks, I guess. I’ll grant that it’s likely on a much lower scale than the plucking of geese for down, but how do we know it’s painful. Plucking my grey hairs doesn’t hurt as much as plucking my natural hair because they aren’t quite as rooted. Are we sure plucking geese produces ungodly amounts of pain like pulling all my hair out? Anyone poll the geese?
And yes, the good goosedown comes from full-grown geese that eventually give their lives and livers for pate. The poorer quality goosedown evidently comes from younger geese in China as a by-product for other meat products.
Consider this. As a meat-eater, you keep eating meat. But once you have a fur, you have it for years.
Mine, for instance, is made out of animals that actually died decades before I was born. It’s true that it’s not a real fashionable cut, and it’s also true that I have to repair the thing every time I wear it.
It’s soooo nice and warm, though. That’s really coming in handy this month.
Note that, in my lifetime, no animals had to die in order for me to wear this coat. (Unless you count my mother.)
Bird species that typically use their own feathers to line nests have feathers that loosen during breeding season. For eider ducks, those are down feathers on their breast, and plucking them is not nearly as painful as, say, yanking them from the duck’s back. In other words, this is not too different than a dog’s seasonal hair shedding, and localized to feathers easily accessible to the birds. Taking those feathers after the ducks are done breeding is taking advantage of naturally evolved feather-shedding mechanisms which is different than simply yanking feathers at any random time.
Having owned several species of birds, yes, yanking a feather that’s not already about to come out really is painful for a bird. I have not owned geese, but I have no reason to believe it would hurt them any less than any other bird.
That said - I’m a confirmed carnivore and have no problem with utilizing the fur or feathers of something that has already been slaughtered for food. I do prefer my food to not suffer needlessly, but I’m well aware that there is some suffering involved when eating any form of animal flesh.
The Wiki on this isn’t very complete and has no citations to speak of, but it appears to agree with you. Here’s the relevant bit:
Regarding eiderdown:
Fair enough. Goosedown may cause animal suffering. If that bothers someone, they should choose a synthetic alternative.
The question may then become what’s the environmental impact of synthetics? If that’s something that’s meaningful, consider that back in the days humans were decking themselves out in all kinds of animal by-products, their carbon footprint was considerably smaller. Enter synthetics, and just what long-term impact are we having on the only home humans and all other animals great and small have ever known?
Eh, it doesn’t have the immediate visceral impact of “awww, look at the cute goose, it’s suffering,” but I’d like to think that a few geese suffering today means a better planet for the geese of tomorrow.
Sorry for the hijack, but just illustrating that it’s all about choices and priorities. Anyone can justify any position and if it works for them…eh.
Ditto.
You can have my coffee cup when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
I wonder how much of the animal-rights revolution is funded by the petroleum industry. It always seems to come down to “synthetic alternative,” and that usually means hydrocarbons.