Am I being contradictory here? (ex-wife related)

I need a ruling here…

In 2004 I was painfully married to my now ex-wife. I was the sole income and we filed joint tax returns.

I messed up and didn’t file state taxes for 2004. The story, and I’m sticking to it, is that I thought we were due a pittance of a return. I thought I didn’t have to file at all if I were due a return and since it was a pittance, forget it.

A couple months ago I received a letter from the state informing me of my mistake and saying they’d like $750 in back taxes plus about $250 in fees, interest, and penalties. It’ s just shy of $1000.

I panicked, called the ex- and told her about the letter. I told her I would investigate and get back to her. I rummaged, miraculously found enough old paper to actually calculate my 2004 taxes, and thought I calculated that the state owed us rather than the reverse. I thought we were due back $400 from that year.

I called the state and they told me to send the paperwork and they’d look it over.

I called the ex-wife and informed her and she said she wanted half.

“Why?” I asked, “It’s a refund on my income.”

“Well”, she said, “if we had to pay you’d want me to pay half, right?”

Fair enough, she’s right, I’d want her to pay half, I agreed to send it to her half the refund.

Fast forward a month or so and I’m doing paperwork to send to the state for 2004. All a sudden the papers say I have to pay, not receive. I know it’s better to give than receive but not when it’s taxes. I panic again, do the taxes yet again, and the damned papers say the same thing. I have to pay. My math puts the amount within $3 of the states amount so I think the state was right after all.

I call the ex-.

(You can hear this coming, can’t you?)

It’s my problem she says. I should pay it.

She contacts a lawyer and the lawyer confirms that she’s on the hook for it legally but it’s unlikely, since she didn’t have any income that year, that they’ll actually go after her for it, they’ll go after me.

So, while she’s liable, she’s not really targeted and if she just hides over here, they’ll garnish my wages and not hers. A call by me to the state more or less confirms that. They’ll go after me but she’s technically liable, too, since it was a joint return.

Here’s my points:

  1. She wanted half the 2004 refund when she thought there was a refund.
  2. She got half the federal return from 2007 even though we were separated and she didn’t earn any money that year either. She felt entitled to it.
  3. Despite her claims that she didn’t earn money in 2004, she lived as if she had income. For a women that didn’t have any income, she certainly had lots of out-go.

(I know that she’s, in part, responsible for part of the 2007 return even though she didn’t earn any income. Filing “Married-Joint” with her standard exemption, too, increased the return beyond the “Married-Separate” rate. I’m not arguing she didn’t have rights to part of that tax return).

I’ve offered to meet her halfway on this. If she’ll pay half the back taxes, about $375, I’ll cover the fees and interest myself - this acknowledges that I made the mistake that cost these extra fees but the tax bill is still a joint responsibility.

OK - that’s one half of this (tired yet?)

I just got called by a lawyer’s office looking for her. She ran out on a T-Mobile bill in 2004 (pre-divorce) for nearly $600 and they’re trying to collect.

I had my own cell phone and own bill during this time. She had a long habit of buying services, games, ring tones, etc even though I told her it was an expensive habit. She switched phones and plans whenever she wanted, frequently, often to hide from the fact that she paid her bills, let us say, somewhat inconsistently.

I feel no obligation to cover any part of her $600 bill from 2004 yet I still expect her to pay $375 toward the back taxes.

Am I being unreasonable here? I see the back-taxes as a past joint responsiblity but the cell-phone bill as a personal responsibility.

I’ve read a lot of your posts related to your ex and the divorce. I just have this to say. I think she’s well rid of you. That should tell you where I fall on this latest bit of drama.

Yes, you’re being unreasonable. When you’re married and only one person is bringing in money, there is no individual financial responsibility. The taxes and the phone are both joint responsibilities. She didn’t run out on the phone bill: both of you did, since you were married at the time it was incurred.

If she refuses to consider them such, then you may legitimately refuse to consider her phone as such. But it’s an all-or-nothing thing.

Daniel

I agree with this 100%.

As far as the tax thing goes, you don’t stand a chance. Believe me. I know. Been there, done that.

If it were me, at this point, having gotten out of a bad marriage and about to get into (hopefully) a better one, I’d be inclined to take care of all the taxes and let her deal with the phone bill. See if she’ll go for that - it costs you a bit more, but the taxes basically are your fault, and the phone is hers. Whether she wanted half when it was a refund and doesn’t want to pay half is moot - you divorced her for her lousy attitude; you know what she’s like.

Everything above, plus - damn, start double-checking your math.

Well, you were the one who screwed up. There’s nothing wrong with you asking for half, but when she says no, suck it up and deal.

I look at it another way. Suppose she is responsible for half of it. Is it really worth interacting with your ex in order to get her to pay that half? I doubt it. I’d pay it, have nothing to do with my ex (she’s an ex for a reason), and move on.

Marc

Suck it up and pay the grand. Seriously. If you attempt to fight it you cost yourself well more than a thousand dollar’s worth of aggravation. And THEN you have to pay anyway. Pay it sooner rather than later and be done with it.

Pay the taxes and leave the phone bill to her. I suspect there will be another bill caused by her turning up later anyway that will more than level the balance.

I would recommend filing for a legal seperation if you are not already divorced (you filed together in 2007?) to at least protect yourself from any more surprise bills and make sure everything in your name belongs to you and only you - if the cellphone is in your name, cancel it ASAP. If you leave things in your name and let the ex - or anyone else - have access to the account, you are setting yourself up big time.

To be fair on the taxes, it sounds like you are using her for the deduction and expect her to meet you half way on paying backtaxes? Yeah, you may have given her half of the refund but you also used her so your deductions would be higher than if you filed seperately… think of her like a loan that you have to pay her interest on at the end of the year =P

IMO, cut her off completely and file your own taxes with your own deductions and let her worry about her own.

A $1000 not to have to talk to the ex? Sounds like a bargain. Pay it.

Are the lawyers for the phone company expecting you to pay her phone bill? No? Then tell them where she lives, when she’ll be home, what her habits are, email photographs, etc, and then hang up the phone and wish a nasty bill collector on her.

I would split the difference.

The taxes and the phone are both of your responsibilities.

Pay the tax and leave her with the phone.

I have went through the tax crap before. We owed state taxes. The reason we owed was a withdrawal I took from a 401K plan to pay off his previous ex wife in a settlement. For two years after we were divorced they took all of my state refund and part of my federal refund.

They did not take his because he didn’t file. He worked on the books but just did not file. He has a habit of ignoring things and hope they go away. I am sure they will catch up with him soon enough.

The only way I can get half of that money back is to take him to court. I don’t want to have to deal with it. It is over now and done with. Sometimes it is just easier to bite the bullet, pay your dues, and move on.

Whether you tell the collections people her new address and phone number is up to you. If you have already told them she no longer lives there then they will start looking for her at a new address and most likely they will find her.

It sucks when you are trying to get on with your life and your past one keeps creeping into it and even more so when it knocks at the pocket book.

Do you have a lawyer? Talk to him or her about the cell phone bill. I don’t know the law in Colorado but in Wisconsin any debt incurred by either party to a marriage is assumed to be a debt in furtherance of the marriage and is equally the responsibility of both parties. If there’s something similar in Colorado you may wind up with the cell phone bill mucking up your credit.

As for the taxes, I concur with everyone who’s said that the aggravation isn’t worth the possibility of collecting anything from the ex.

Not having read as many of your marriage-and-divorce dramas as A. R. Cane has, I’d say that you’re both well rid of each other.

Well, it it’s a lot more than $1000. It’s $1000 plus about 12 years of lost income since she spent every dime.

I hear you all.

I’ve covered lots of bills that we had in common. In the debt split, I got about 2/3rds of the outstanding balances to pay. In return I asked that she leave my 401K to me. As an asset, it just about balanced out the debt problem. The fact that it’s not really liquid makes it a on-paper even-split but lopsided in practice.

I just got a warning letter from Experian there’s been negative additions to my credit record. A lookup of my credit report and a call to the credit-card company shows that the card she’s responsible for is behind 30-days again. At least it’s only 30 days, it was up to 150 days late before I threatened her with court action to get her to pay it. (It was hers to pay in the division of debt, my name is still on the credit card so I try to keep an eye on it.)

I guess you’re all right. I rankles, though, to have yet more expenses showing up. Maybe I can salvage this a bit. It’s a token gesture, but maybe we should split the difference, (1000-600)/2.

That still has her paying me so I’m sure she’ll resist. I’m just sick of paying out money related to our past.

As far as paying money to not deal with her? We have three children in common, I’m dealing with this woman for the next 15 years, at least.

Oh, by the way, all her cries of poverty are a little hard to hear over the sound from the new 38-inch plasma HD-TV in the living room.

I don’t necessarily think you are being unreasonable, but you are being unrealistic.

You are going to have to pay the whole tax bill yourself. The IRS isn’t going to care about the complexities of your marriage - they don’t morally censure, they just want the money. And I suspect the credit bureaus are going to be equally indifferent to your marriage difficulties about the cell phone bill - you are liable for the bill, even if your wife is/was a deadbeat. So either pay it, or accept that it will ruin your credit for the next seven years.

Yes, it is unfair for her to want half the refund but be unwilling to pay any of the bill. That doesn’t matter either. Put it down as Reason #212 That You Are Well Rid of Her.

Get a legal separation ASAP, so that you will have no more of these surprises from your past.

The divorce is going to cost you more than you expect or deserve. The same is true for your ex-wife.

Regards,
Shodan

None of my business–but pray tell, WHY oh WHY do you have a credit card with your name still attached to it with your ex? Or am I misreading your post—is the account closed and she isn’t paying it? Or is it still active in both your names?

I get along fantastic with my ex, but you can rest assured there is nothing with my name in her possession. Is there anything else you have still tied to this woman? Old checking account? Debit card? Get your name off anything you had in common with this woman–or trust me you will be writing another OP in the near future.

My ex and I didn’t have a lot of debt, but I insisted she use the equity money to close out any credit cards and then we cancelled those cards. She has new cards in her name only and she can run them up as much as she wants as far as I am concerned!

And to put your mind at ease–when I got divorced, did the same thing. My ex kept the equity in the house and when we sold the house she got this big check and I got zip–other then my retirement funds. But that seemed at the time so empty, she had this actual check and mine was all in theory only. 5 years later she has some of that equity left, but my retirement fund has doubled. So think of the long perspective and look forward in your life and not backwards.

Your new life is with your current girlfriend, yes you will have to deal with your ex until your kids are adults. But you can minimize those dealings by breaking all ties to the past. Do it–get your name off those #&$^( credit cards now! :wink:

This is the only joint debt left that she controls. It’s closed to new charges but had a remaining balance.

The history on this card is that once upon a time, I co-signed a credit card for her (when we were still married). It was supposed to be a buffer thing for a home business she wanted to start. She was to buy product on the credit card, resell it, then pay the credit card back. Lather, rinse, and repeat, the balance was supposed to stay near zero.

She maybe sold $100 of the original $1500 inventory, spent the $100 on herself, and the majority of the remaining inventory was discarded when I cleaned the house after she moved out with her boyfriend. The business never got beyond the $100 initial sales. She found out that it takes effort to sell cosmetics and she’s not really interested in anything that takes effort and focus.

Fast forward less than a year and she’s got $6800 dollars of debt on a card with a $5000 limit. Everything above $5000 was late fees and interest, of course but it was a shock. She was supposed to be handling it.

So, the card is closed to new charges but the debt remains. Before we were divorced I had managed to pay it down to somewhere around $3500.

I gave it to her in the divorce debt split because it was the one card out of all of them that had a process to remove a name from the card (it also had the lower interest and payment requirements so it should’ve been to her benefit, too)

Unfortunately for me, the CC company says I have a zero chance of removing my name as long as the card is past-due and I think that during the 14 months since the separation and divorce it’s never been current. Being only 30-days late right now is a vast improvement over where it’s been but it’s still past due.

To remove my name, she basically has to qualify on her own finances to take over the debt. I can’t see the credit card company looking at her payment history and credit rating and letting me off the hook for the balance. The only way I can get off this card is to have her pay it off.

I check in with the CC company every other month or so, IM or email her with the info that it’s overdue again, listen to her lie in response, and do it again a month or two later.

She controls no other joint debts but this card. Others debts remain but they’re either paid-off or up-to-date. They’re in my control.

Her car she drives is all mine on paper, title and debt, but she has possession. I pay the bill on this and subtract it from my support payments to her. It’s part of our deal. She let the insurance lapse once I rode her butt hard until she re-insured it.

Unfortunately, since she devastated the family finances so severely, including spending the equity money from the house we sold, there’s no asset she can liquidate to pay off any debts.

Pay and get out.

Pay and get out.

Pay and get out.
It doesn’t matter if you have to eat ramen noodles for the next year. It doesn’t matter if you have to re-sole your own shoes with used bubble gum. It doesn’t matter if you have to tell the ladies that BO is all the rage.

It doesn’t matter if you’re over her or not. It doesn’t matter whose fault it is. It doesn’t matter how she paints the picture to the kids or her family or even your family.

It also doesn’t matter that, in my own opinion, you seem more than a little vindictive and past the time to move on.

What DOES matter is that she can spend money and leave you on the hook for it, regardless of her intentions or lack thereof.

What DOES matter is that who is “right” and “wrong” (and no one ever is, in these circumstances) is entirely secondary to the fact that the credit bureaus (much like George Thoroughgood’s landlady in “One Bourboun, Oned Scotch, ONe Beer”) don’t give a shit, long as they get their money next Friday.

So pay it off. If you want to use it as a passive-aggressive little club later on in what’s left of your relationship, go right ahead, but there’s no sense in paying interest on that club, which is what you’re doing right now.