In which I shame my ex-wife and pull the tiger's tail. (long)

A letter to the mother of my ex-wife, sent yesterday. It’s pretty self explanatory, I’ve done a little search-and-replace on the names but otherwise it’s more or less intact.

Originally, I was going to use this letter as a threat. I was going to threaten to send it to my Ex’s mother in hopes she’d straighten up rather than being shamed. After writing the whole tale, I realized all the second chances I have given her already and I just sent it right on to the ex-MiL.

In retrospect, I probably should’ve kept the morality of her cohabiting out of it but, eh, what the hell. It pisses me off and I’ve had a low-tolerance for bullshit this week.

Cast of Characters:
MiL = My Ex Mother in Law
Suzy = My Ex Wife
John = My Ex’s first cohabitant boyfriend
Jim = My Ex’s second cohabitant boyfriend
Peter = My older son
Martha = My daughter

A touch of history. I’m paying a loan back to my ex-MiL. The money, according to my ex- when the check was received, was to be a gift of $6000 to purchase a car when ours decided to die unexpectedly.

Apparently the “gift” wasn’t, my ex- was just expressing wishful thinking, and the MiL expected repayment. I now pay this back monthly as part of the divorce agreement’s debt split.

I have heaved the excrement into the whirling turbine and, so far, nothing has hit the wall. I’m cringing in my expectations…

========================================

Dear MiL,

First off, I apologize for the length of this note, the tale, as they say, grew in the telling.

I know you haven’t heard from me in a while - I’m not really sure what contact is appropriate. I don’t know to what degree you blame me in the divorce, I can be sure that you’ve only heard one side of the situation. I do know that lies were told about me to friends: accusations of infidelity, abuse, and alcoholism. Thankfully my friends were aware enough of the marital situation and of my character to not believe these accusations. I can only assume that similar lies were told to you, <FiL>, and <Fil’s Wife> as well.

You only have my words to convince you that I never abused Suzy or the kids, there has been no alcoholism, and I was never unfaithful to her. You have the evidence of Suzy’s behavior both before and since the separation as an example of her commitment to the marriage. It’s probably safe to say she hasn’t been pining for the loss if it. I grieve the lost potential, the lost time, and have a lot of anger, still, for her infidelity before the separation and for her actions since. Heck, I even miss you, <Fil> and <FiL’s wife> - you always treated me like a member of the family.

Suzy’s live-in boyfriends have been a special concern for me. The first, as you may recall, moved in with her and the kids three weeks after meeting her. He’s the one who stole from my children, says Suzy. She says John stole Peter’s Nintendo DS and perhaps Martha’s gameboy. The current boyfriend [Jim] seems alright, if maybe a little dull, based on no more than the sum total of maybe 10 minutes I’ve spent with him.

I’m concerned for the moral lesson that’s being taught my children with these live-in boyfriends. The life-lesson she’s teaching about the proper relationships between married and unmarried people has been a special thorn in my side.

Suzy wants to believe that my girlfriend and I live apart because my apartment was too small for two people. Not so, of course. The truth is I want to teach my children what I believe to be the greater moral lesson. I hope that in the future the kids remember the two examples and choose the better one. I hate to think of a 16-year old Martha running off to live with her boyfriend of three weeks because of the lessons she’s learned now.

But I’m digressing.

I’m writing to you because I need your help - and by helping me, you’d be helping your daughter.

Like all divorced couples, Suzy and I divided assets & debts in the separation and divorce agreement. Among these debts were the Toyota payment and various credit cards. When the debt split was complete, I had twice the debt balance and debt payments assigned to me. I took the larger portion of debt in return for her leaving my 401K balance alone. It wasn’t liquid anyway, it was small (having been tapped multiple times to pay older debts), and it would’ve been difficult to split. None of these motivations were a secret to her, I disclosed all in emails to her and she agreed.

Two of the four credit cards were in only one name, one for each of us, and two were held jointly. These joint cards we split between us (the cards in our individual names, of course, stayed with the individual). I gave Suzy, in the agreement, the joint card with the lower balance and lower interest rate. In part, I did this to help her out but also this was the one card of the two that has a process to remove one name. This was the <Credit Union> card.

Some history on this card. Several years ago, Suzy decided she wanted to sell Mary Kay cosmetics. Mary Kay had a business model where their salespeople first buy the cosmetics from them, then resell them to their customers at a 100% markup. Suzy first tried to get a credit card on her own for the purchase of this initial sales kit but was refused. She asked me to cosign the card with her and I foolishly agreed. She was awarded a card with a $5000 limit.

Suzy was to sell the cosmetics and use the proceeds to pay down the balance on that card, and then use the card to repurchase new kit supplies. Any unsold cosmetics could be returned to the factory for credit and, again, the balance could be paid from that money.

Suzy sold very few cosmetics, pocketed the proceeds, then abandoned the business altogether. She never returned the cosmetics for credit (I discarded 100’s of dollars worth after she left) and then she continued to use the card for her own personal use. I trusted her to pay the bill and keep the card under control. By the time I became aware of the situation, the card balance was $1800 over limit and accumulating more than $70 a month in late fees and over-limit fees on top of the monthly interest.

I took control of the card. By the time we separated and I turned the card over to her control, I had paid the card to a balance of ~$2600 dollars. I sent her numerous emails (I have copies still) about the payment schedule, payment status, addresses, etc. of this and her other debts. These debts are also clearly spelled out in both the separation and divorce papers.

Well, for the next many months, she ignored the card. I called every now and then or would send an email or instant-message to remind her. I was not interested in monitoring her business, I was interested in protecting my credit rating. With my name as cosigner, those missed payments negatively affected my credit rating.

Whenever we spoke about this card, she’d assure me she had sent payments that weren’t correctly credited, of conversations with the credit card representatives, of arrangements made and so forth. Any time I’d call the CC company to verify, they had no record of any payments nor any conversations.

Finally, when the account was near 150 days past due and another missed payment would’ve risked lawsuit (they start action at 180 days) I made a partial payment that bought another 30 days grace. I then gave Suzy an ultimatum, I was taking a trip and if the account didn’t have arrangements made by the time I returned, I’d take her back to court. Not paying the debt was a violation of the divorce decree. Violating the decree was contempt of court. I would go and have her cited if she didn’t meet her responsibilities. This, according to my lawyer, was my only option.

This, apparently, was sufficient threat to her. When I returned she assured me that payment arrangements had been made and scheduled. I called the CC company and, for the first time, they confirmed her story. She met those arrangements and the card became briefly current. I say briefly because she got behind again almost immediately and caught up again in January.

Since January, though, there’s been no more payments. She told me she sent one but the CC company has none on record and, frankly, I’ve heard this lie before. She told me she sent $300 from her tax return money. At first, this claim surprised me because earlier she told me she didn’t get a return, she told me had to pay additional tax this year. Now she tells me she had a $400 refund.

I was surprised when earlier she claimed she had to pay 2007 taxes. Her income, plus the child-care tax credit, plus the EIC she said she qualified for, almost assured a return. I believe she told me she had no tax return because she also owes me $425 for past joint debt (that’s half of it. I will pay the other half) and she didn’t want to admit to having the windfall.

Her cries of poverty are hard to hear over the sound from the new, Hi-definition LCD widescreen television in the living room. She said she and Jim bought the TV together from money earned because both of them worked so much overtime. My children visit me with torn clothing, with clothing so small that Peter can’t pull the jeans up or Martha’s belly sticks out, and she’s buying wide screen TV’s. I know where the $1800 a month I pay in child support goes, I think, and it’s not supporting my children’s needs.

Well - back to the card, since this has now become a novel.

The card is again two payments behind. The Feb 3 and Mar 3 payments have not been received as of today.

I spoke with Suzy today concerning this credit card and I asked her to consider getting another credit card or a loan and paying off the joint debt (this is what I did for the joint card in my control.) She said she couldn’t. I suggested that Jim could cosign for her and she said she wouldn’t ask that. She also won’t let me pay the card on her behalf, subtracting the payments from her bi-weekly check, as I do with the Toyota payment. I don’t know why she won’t allow this, it’s a net zero change but she refuses. Therefore, I’m contacting you.

Earlier, I mentioned that this card was unique in that it had a process to remove my name from it. You may wonder why I haven’t simply done this. I’ve been assured by the CC company’s representatives that I have a near zero chance of approval because of her payment history. As long as I’m available as a potential payee, with Suzy being such a poor payee, then removing my name is nearly impossible.

Therefore, I have several proposals for you. I want to you consider that if you agree, you’re helping your daughter. Yes, I benefit, and if I didn’t I wouldn’t have written but in the end, your daughter wins, too.

Proposal 1

Consider cosigning a bill-consolidation loan with Suzy and have her pay-off his debt entirely - perhaps a consolidation loan that can include her Toyota automobile balance. She’d get a better interest rate and pay off both faster.
Proposal 2

Consider paying this credit card on Suzy’s behalf. If you resent the CC company the $150 I send you monthly, it’d be paid off in ~21 months.
Proposal 3

Allow me to send payments to the CC company in lieu of paying you for the auto debt. By paying Suzy’s debt for her, you’d be counting that as money paid to you for the other debt. Any remaining difference between dollars I paid the CC company and money still owed you, I commit to sending you. The total will be $3900 split between the CC company and you.
Proposal 4

A balance of $2524 at 21% is payments totaling ~$3400 over the life of the payoff at the CC’s current payment rate. That’s pretty close to the $3900 owed you. One option is to swap debt. I payoff the card, Suzy pays you the auto debt at whatever rate you two decide between you. You still get your money from Suzy, the card company gets theirs from me.
I’m not proud of bringing this to you but I’m trying to protect myself and reconstruct some semblance of a normal life financially separate from her. While she and I must interact for the sake of the children, I am trying my best to separate myself from the financial ruin she’s left me in. Since she’s refused what I think are reasonable actions to settle this problem, she’s leaving me few options but returning to court or petitioning her family for help. I’m bringing it to you in the hope that you might consider helping Suzy, and, by extension, helping me.

PSSSSST.*

  • The sound of a family-sized can of worms opening.

If I were you I probably would have left out the catty remarks about her daughter’s moral failings.

You would have done better to ask for advice before sending that letter. Since you didn’t, there really isn’t much to say.

I do hope that this works out well for you.

Oh, this will end well, I’m sure.

Proposal 5: Take the bitch to court and get her cited for contempt. There’s no reason to drag her mother into this.

I could care less about the credit card, although she is in violation of the divorce agreement, which, IIRC, judges tend to frown upon. But the children’s torn and outgrown clothing while Mummy and Shack Up Boyfriend have a new big screen TV? Uh-uh.

Seriously…keep MIL out of this. This is between you, Suzy, and the courts.

Wow, that letter makes you sound like a complete jerk. Why on earth you would think it was a good idea to send that to your ex’s mother is completely beyond me. You come across as a sanctimonious ass who is trying to weasel out of a bad financial situation by trying to make Suzy’s mother responsible for Suzy’s debt.

Your recourse is to the court, where you can have Suzy held in contempt for not paying the debt; re-allocate the payments so that your credit is not at risk (e.g., you pay the debt and reduce Suzy’s monthly payment by that amount – the exact thing you proposed to Suzy which she of course would not agree to, since she wants the money); or get a court order to have your name removed from the account.

If I were Suzy’s mother, this letter would leave a really bad taste in my mouth and considerably lower my opinion of you. And if I were Suzy, I would be beyond pissed that you would be so presumptious as to even attempt to involve my mother in my financial affairs, embarrassing me in the process.

End of December 2006, when she started to date this boyfriend, my MiL was visiting and we had a few minutes to talk. I said said, Just watch, John will move in the moment Suzy’s done moving out.

“Over my dead body.” declared the MiL.

She doesn’t like it, I’m sure, and, of course, no dead bodies occurred from the action.

I guess I’m trying to point out that Suzy deserves little sympathy for her choices - and has made choices that are bad for her grandchildren. My kids are the only grandchildren for my ex-MiL and she dotes on them.

Yeah, I realize this is drastic - I just found out that my credit rating sucks so badly that an attempt to refinance my fiance’s house is damaged by my inclusion in the process. I make 2.5 times the salary of my fiance, but she’s better off without me finacially. 99.9% of the damage to my credit rating is because of the past actions of my ex-wife and she continues to chip away at it with her current behavior.

Yesterday’s absolute refusal to even attempt to fix the problem truly pissed me off. I notified her a month ago that this account was past due, she humphed and said she’d fix it. Now a month later, it’s simply two months behind.

Drastic measures are necessary and I’m short on ideas (and not rich enough to just pay this off).

Embarrassment was precisely the idea.

Maybe I come off as a jerk - I dunno. I’m just pissed as hell and want this debt gone. She already has a court order to pay it and she’s not - what’s to suggest the courts could fix this?

Oh - and my MiL’s opinion of me is not a huge concern.

Take
Her
Back
to
COURT!

You’ve wasted a bunch of time with this. What’s the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Quit trying to reason with her and let the judge smack her around.

I still think dragging her mother into this is unnecessary. At the very least, it involves your ex-MIL, whom you say you miss and like, into a huge mess that she shouldn’t have to deal with. Why would you do that to this nice lady?

But Grandma should assume the debt to “help Suzy” and – completely incidentally of course! – help you out of a financial bind. After you slagged off her daughter. :rolleyes:

I have to agree with Jodi on this. If you want to come to this agreement with MiL, then simply mention that. Don’t mention the other stuff re the live in boyfriend. If things are so bad with Ex re the kids then maybe you should go back to court and try to get custody.

Well, it’s just that now Suzy and MiL are more inclined to focus on you as a common enemy rather than the financial problems.

Is our court system so messed up that you couldn’t show the whole financial mess to the court and objectively show how Suzy is putting you and your kids at risk?

Is this the part where Judge Milian starts cussing everybody out in Spanish?

Follow your lawyer’s advice, take her to court, and get this dealt with.

Ask said lawyer about what documentation you need to start collecting to show she’s an unfit parent, while you’re at it.

Right now you’re just wallowing in the mud instead of climbing out and moving on.

Then what the hell is the point of this thread? You already sent the letter; you’re not really interested in anyone’s feedback that doesn’t agree with your own.

I already set forth three separate ways the court could fix this, so I’m not sure exactly what you mean by “what’s to suggest the court could fix this?” The court can fix it. And the court is who you should be addressing – not your ex-MIL, whose significant financial assistance you’re soliciting despite the fact her “opinion of you is not a huge concern.” Nice.

Because you can now demonstrate that she’s not following the rules. That can be grounds for the court to change the settlement to what you asked her for - to quit paying her money and use it to pay the bills instead.

Umm. I didn’t “slag off” her daughter. You apparently missed the part where she was unfaithful to me. She wanted out of the marriage so she could fuck around.

And my motivations are clearly spelled out in the letter - I don’t sugar-coat the fact that by cosigning a loan for her, she’s helping me out.

I don’t reduce any of my financial responsibilities - I’m only trying to protect my credit rating - which incidentally would help her daughter’s too.

This has little to do with getting paid and everything to do with expressing how pissed you are. The “re-structuring payments” theme is a pretext for you to bitch about her daughter. Your letter’s tone of high dudgeon and aspersions against her daughter (even if she acknowledges they are true) will not be appreciated. Sending that letter was (IMO) a monumentally stupid thing to do as it will harden your MIL’s attitudes against you.

Re the 1800/month that’s a pretty hefty child support bill for two kids. Assuming it reflects your income you would be better off telling her you’re unilaterally using 2 CS payments to pay off her card as it seems to be a non-ending and costly whirlpool. If she chooses to chase you for the missing CS you can roll over and pay it if she gets aggressive enough about it, but at least you’ve got a shot she might go for the deal if it gets the CC company off her back. You need to separate yourself from this nonsense ASAP. Int he long run the few thousand owed on the card will seem like chump change if it continues to impact your credit.

Of course he can! “Your Honor, you made Suzy responsible for this debt and she isn’t paying it. I can’t get my name off this card, so every month she falls behind hurts my credit rating because I’m still listed as a responsible party for the debt. It is crucial to my economic well-being that our finances be completely separated, because she is using the joint account to cause me damage. I therefore ask that you reduce my monthly support payment by the amount of her monthly credit card responsibility and I will assume complete responsibility to pay this card. I have asked her to agree to this arrangement in light of her history of non-payment of this account, and she as refused.”