But people who don’t believe in woo do this kind of shit all the time. They may not use that language but world is full of people who believe they are too psychologically fragile to handle frank conversations about ways they need to change. If you ask me it’s kind of an epidemic ATM.
That is definitely good advice in general, but the problem can be that lack of money might not stop the purchases, because
so don’t want to be bothered with things like how expensive it is to run up credit card debt.
If the wife is looking at the bank account and seeing there is $4000 in there, so a $350 purchase is no big deal, but ignoring the pending mortgage, car, and credit card payments, then pre-deducting will help. If instead she is just buying things, and letting the universe sort out how it gets paid for, then pre-deducting won’t help, because the amount of money available is not a factor in the purchase decision.
One short thing to add: Differentials in spending, and disagreements over what to buy are no doubt one of the most common marital problems. Most people get through it and figure out a way to cope. So don’t give up hope, or give up on your wife. She’s going through a pretty tough time herself.
You two should talk. Not about ‘her problems’, but about what both of you want from the marriagte, from retirement, etc. Ask her what she thinks you should be doing differently as well. Then come up with a mutually agreed-upon plan.
I would get an agreement on how much should be put away for retirement, then set up an auto-withdrawal in that amount into a tax-deferred investment. That will prevent the, “Well, we can make an exception for just one month because I really want that bauble” problem. And get rid of the credit cards in favor of debit cards or cash if she is misusing them.
If the guitar-player’s response to his/her spouse’s query were “This conversation is distorting my sense of pitch, and making it impossible for me to keep rhythm, so I can’t have it anymore” I would agree more with your point here. The woo is enabling her refusal to have meaningful discussion.
“I’m gong to make money busking as soon as I learn the guitar.”
“Honey, this guitar is a collector’s item! It will go up in value. I can sell it any time.”
“You just hate my music, or are jealous of my talent.”
“I bought the guitar to help me out of my depression, but you fighting me over it just makes my depression worse.”
People can come up with endless justifications for what they want to do. If it hadn’t been woo, it would be something else.
“That’s great, but in the meantime, let’s talk about money.”
“Okay, but until you sell it, we have to talk about money.”
"No, I don’t hate your music, and I love your talent, but we need to talk about money’
“Okay, let’s talk about your depression, and what we can do to help you.”
None of these closes off the discussion like woo does.
I suppose it does raise the question of whether the wife’s rock budget is really creating a financial hardship for the OP or whether the OP simply doesn’t like what she’s spending money on.
Really unless you are living paycheck to paycheck, both parties in a marriage should be free to some level of discretionary purchases, so long as it doesn’t create a financial hardship.
What sounds more like a relationship red flat to me is the OP’s frustration with his wife’s talk of “her energy” and other new-agey bullshit. Not only is it frustrating to be with someone who believes stuff you find nonsensical and silly, she seems to be using it to deflect and avoid actual conversations about finances and other real stuff.
A thread about a depressed husband buying a guitar would not generally end in “divorce the idiot”. A thread about a husband buying a guitar and playing in a shitty garage band every day in lieu of going out and finding a job might.
It’s not so much the specific that result in the “divorce the idiot” discussions. It’s the realization that you are now locked into marriage with a person who is completely different from what you expected in ways you might not want to deal with for the rest of your life.
Or maybe think of it another way. If the OP spends an hour a day arguing with his wife over magic crystal bullshit, at the end of the year that’s over two weeks of his time he could have spent doing literally anything more enjoyable or productive.
Oh, I can agree with that, but it’s a separate issue. The same thing could happen if two athiests get married and then one of them gets religion.
I personally could probably not stay married to someone who is into constant woo nonsense. But it would have nothing to do with her spending, but with her pushing irrational beliefs front and center all the time. But other people are different, and it doesn’t bug them.
I’m surprised there’s no family budget. There should be a defined amount of money that goes into retirement savings every month (first and foremost), a reasonable estimate of how much goes into monthly bills, and an amount leftover for discretionary spending. In the discretionary spending, figure out how much should go into the joint spending, and how much goes into spending just for each partner alone. All this should be agreed upon by both parties, of course. Then it’s completely up to each of you to spend this money as each sees fit.
Budgets don’t enforce themselves. A budget wasn’t mentioned but the situation wouldn’t be prevented by the existence of a budget that one party didn’t feel obligated to conform to.
I disagree that forcing financial discipline on one member of the couple is “Stealing.” If there was an implicit agreement to a “normal” financial strategy and one person is now acting outside of the norm, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to try to bring it back within reach.
My own personal Rorschach: My niece got married to a young man she had been dating. Not long into their (dating) relationship, he was involved in a horrific accident. She stayed with him, helped nurse him back to health, and a year-ish later, they were married.
He spent their wedding gift money on frivolities (smart watch, fancy digital camera, new furniture)
He spent their house-savings money on frivolities (new smartphones, car lease, trips, eating out all the time)
They were going bankrupt pretty fast. Because of his accident, he was physically limited (or so he said) in the types of jobs he could take. With little recourse left, my niece cancelled the joint credit cards, which left him stranded when he went on (yet another) unannounced trip, and he had to rely on his own parents to bail him out.
Yes, they ended up divorced. Luckily (?? this is definitely the wrong word) she was young, in her 20s. 6 or 7 years later, she has financially recovered, owns a house, and is doing well.
The OP is in his 50s. He will not have years to recover if the spending escalates.
I’m not advocating for cutting her off entirely from their income. But I would argue for being prepared if it becomes necessary. Open a personal bank account, put $500 in it, and leave it. Get a credit card in just your name. Have a release valve for your own sanity.
I’ve no idea how your conversations are going, just the summary you are providing. I do suggest approaching it as a loving spouse and partner and not the CFO. Come to an agreement on what spending is necessary to maintain the household, to contribute to retirement, to spend on things you will enjoy together, and what’s reasonable to spend individually. Where you don’t agree within a comfortable margin, show justification for your suggestions and ask for justification for hers. Ask her to understand that your belief system is just as important to you as hers is to her, and she needs to understand and be sensitive to your beliefs as much as you are being with hers.
Some folks seem to be getting hung up on the fact that “they can afford it, they just have to cut back in other areas to enable this spending…” but it seems like the spending is escalating. This time it was a $350 crystal ball, but what will it be next time, or the time after that, or will it become more frequent?
There are two extreme ends to this whole situation: Divorce on one end, and bankruptcy on the other. My sincere hope is that the OP and his wife end up in a happy middle place where differences are worked out. Sometimes, with the right therapist maybe (or without one if you’re lucky), that point will be reached. But sometimes people need a little nudge, and if explaining your position doesn’t work, you have an obligation to attempt to secure your family’s future, and it may come with some hard decisions.
Best of luck to both of you!
Which is why I wrote
One party can draw up a tentative budget, as a jumping-off point. Both parties decide together how much money goes into each bucket.
I would hope the OP is at least maxing out 401k contributions at his job.
And I’d suggest looking at your SS statements for your anticipated income at retirement. That could sober her up too.
That post just reminded me of the woman I worked with many years ago whose husband got really sick and went on long-term prednisone therapy - and this made him manic and, among other things, he too became financially irresponsible and they did indeed lose their home and almost got divorced.
I just had a painful set of flashbacks that took place throughout my marriage to Mr VOW, when he would spend money without thinking.
He would figure, “Oh, I work, I make money, I want this, I’ll buy it!” Mr VOW developed a VERY bad habit of calling the credit card company and getting the credit line increased!
And then the screaming starts, I turn into a banshee when the bills arrive. We’ve had some lean, lean years after he retired from the Army, the kids were in jr high and high school and NEEDED things, and I was the responsible one trying to fill all the holes and put out fires and pay the bills and feed the household.
To my credit, I did not kill him.
I do understand how a $350 crystal ball fills your heart with homicide. If the serpentine belt breaks on the family car, it would cost at least that much to repair. But both of you could talk about it as a family bill, and brainstorm about which piggy bank to bust open, or who gets to look for quarters in the upholstery. But the crystal ball benefits one one person, and it’s painful to swallow that!
I got bamboozled into paying for not one, but two big honkin’ telescopes. AND the accoutrements! Telescope #1 was sold at a small profit, with the money put towards Telescope #2, but neither one was exactly cheap. I think the first one was a seven-inch, and the second a 14-inch. Mr VOW recently looked up the cost of the current telescope, and to replace it would be over TEN THOUSAND bucks. Nice to know some things appreciate in value over the years!
My best advice would be for the OP to have some gentle, noncombative conversations with Mrs Woo. Something along the lines of, “I am so grateful you have such an interest in a hobby, and this hobby carried you through the COVID panic. Too many people simply drowned in hopelessness, and it’s hard to fight your way back from that!”
Then you gently ease into the “bucking fudget.”
“How about this for an idea, to help pay for these holistic materials you will use in your potential New Age healing business.” Steer the conversation to increasing her hours as a massage therapist to bring in the additional money needed to get established.
Then start talking about the future holistic business. Look for adult ed classes on starting a business, and keeping books for a small business. Find out what licenses and/or permits she’ll need, and what type of certification she should have.
Explain the existing massage therapist job is a wonderful entry point for holistic healing! She practically has a client list she can build on, and word of mouth will help build up her customer base. She should see if there is a nearby association of holistic healers she can consult about the business, and ask for their price lists for various services. There is no shame in asking to be compensated for her ministrations to help others. We don’t yet live in an Utopian society, so she must depend on getting paid for her healing work. Otherwise, she seems to be floating down the River Styx, with no care as to the actual destination of that river.
As for me and Mr VOW, we eventually worked it all out. It took a good long while to settle things with less screaming. Next month makes 49 years of wedded bliss for us.
And we’ve been married so long because murder is still illegal!
~VOW
I think the major difference here is that people who buy guitars, audio cables or watches, don’t expect them to do anything magical. Such people may suffer from a lack of financial discipline, or may be hoarders, but at least their beliefs are grounded in reality.
Whereas the OP’s wife isn’t just a spendthrift, she’s got some seriously wack ideas of how things work and all kinds of woo. That points to a mental problem that is far more significant than any $350.
Well as it happened I went to bed. But for the record, what I took from your post is that you couldn’t articulate why my comment about the abject sexism from others in this thread was wrong. So you engaged in a passive aggressive attack on me by suggesting I was becoming overheated.
Indeed and at least their overspending could potentially be subject to rational discussion.
When someone is being taken by cons and can’t see it, it’s a bottomless pit until they realise, which they may well never do.
You are confusing me saying what the OP could do with what you are strawmanning me as saying he should do.
I know it’s embarrassing to be blatantly wrong but admitting it tends to garner more respect than doubling down on your error.
If you had simply said that while the OP could withhold some of his earnings, he shouldn’t do so, we wouldn’t be here. Instead you wrongly advised it was illegal and maintained that position up hill and down dale for post after post.