Thank you. Those kind of comments give me the creeps, but that’s probably because of my professional background where a partner strictly controlling the finances is Domestic Violence 101. Even trying to think beyond that paradigm it’s paternalistic at best. You love each other. Everything has to start from there.
Agreed. That whole line of thought was disturbing as hell.
You’re in a world of hurt, and deserve nothing but my empathy. From here, it looks like that world is only going to get worse from now on. Best case scenario is that, failing your wife voluntarily coming to her senses and seeing how seriously she’s wronged you, you’ll stay married, learn to live with the financial depredations, and you will resent her for squandering your paycheck on BS and she’ll resent you for whatever futile attempts you will make to rein in her spending.
A radical approach, which I don’t think you’re ready to hear, is that your marriage is over and your wife is your ex-. With that understanding, you can move on and try to protect what you can of your nest egg and let her fend as best she can with hers (which you can expect the divorce court to saddle with a goodly chunk of). But this is very tough to hear, and I doubt you’re prepared to accept it. I could be wrong, but I don’t see a way out for you that’s any easier than this, and it’s a very tough route to take. In the long run, it’s easier to live with than staying in a marriage that no longer works, but you have to be ready to take the rough road, and that often takes a while to get yourself ready.
Wait! Is the OP in a community property state? Does that make a difference?
This is where I gently remind the OP that every relationship advice thread is better thought of as a Rorschach test that reflects the experiences of people who may be filtering their view of your situation through their own personal lens. To an extent, people can’t help but do this, because the information we have is limited to a few paragraphs.
I know it’s not exactly the same thing, but I’ve been in the “hey, I might start a business” phase before. For several years I worked part-time while trying to become a professional author. I’m a good writer, and I love writing fiction more than anything else, so it’s not an issue of writing skill or passion but the reality the being a successful writer requires you to market yourself constantly, and I have zero entrepreneurial spirit. I also have a real hard time writing to a schedule. It took me six years to finish my first book.
So when I was offered a promotion at my current job to full-time, I took it (a decision my husband didn’t love, I might add, because it required him to take on more child care.) But I came to that decision after years and years of writing courses and consulting groups, at one point I thought I was going to be an editor for this cult-like and very popular editing group I got into, we spent thousands on that. Unlike in your situation, we were saving as necessary, and we had the ability to do this without sacrificing financial stability. But in retrospect it is kinda money I wish we had back, especially now that my kid has ongoing medical needs.
My husband begrudged me none of that, he kinda liked having someone to do chores around the house and he felt he owed me after I helped him through graduate school, often at the cost of my own career.
But my point is you can be really good at something and still not know how to make money off of it. Those are two different skills. If I could shut myself up in a room and write all day and periodically slip a manuscript under my editor’s door and never have to talk to anyone, it would be the perfect job for me. But writing words are only part of the job.
Similarly, with my professional expertise, I could make three times my current salary as a grants consultant, but it would require me to once again be an entrepreneur constantly marketing myself and pretending to be more confident than I actually am. So I occasionally do one-off contracts but have accepted that I’m probably always going to work as an employee.
I suspect your wife is in a similar situation. She knows what she’s most passionate about and she wants with all of her heart to make it happen. But she may not yet have come to terms with the reality of what it takes to make money off of a passion. This is, frankly, a really hard situation to be in. To be this close to your fulfilling your dream, and unable to make it work, is really hard to accept.
On a lighter note, this thread keeps bringing an anecdote to mind. Many moons ago, when I was not so great with money, my husband and I were both graduate students and somewhat overwhelmed, so our tracking of expenditures went off the rails for a few months. At one point he says to me, “I need you to hold off on any discretionary purchases until we figure out our current money situation.”
“Sure,” I say.
Until I see the octopus cookie jar. I am a fan of all things cephalopod - my house is festooned with tentacle-related things, and omg. This cookie jar. Was on sale for $12. Do you know how hard it is to come by adorable octopus artifacts? Surely he would understand.
I bought the octopus cookie jar. I brought it home. He was livid.
“But it’s an octopus! It was $12! Come on, look at it! How could I not take that adorable thing home?”
“It’s the principle of the thing!”
I think we smoothed things over that night. But he told me, “You’re gonna regret it,” and I said, “Never.”
Now, maybe a decade later, that octopus cookie jar is sitting unused in my bathroom (among other sea creatures.) I’ve never actually used it to hold anything, but tbh, it’s freaking adorable. It’s a running joke that I regret nothing and he insists I regret it. Which means, of course, that even if I wanted to get rid of it, I never can, without admitting he was right. And you know that’s not going to happen. I regret nothing!
May you have a similarly silly story about your wife’s crystal ball someday.
I just wanted to say that this is the same reason I didn’t become a writer. I love writing, but I hate selling even more. I just can’t do it. So I took a career that involves some writing and no selling. One day, maybe, I can self-publish, but at the end of the day making art and making rent are two different skills.
I have no advice for the OP, other than to echo that it sounds like your solid certainty (as it comes across here) that you need the money for later is part of the problem. Can you sit down and do the math with yourself, just to see how much you can afford to bend on the rainy-day / retirement fund, and how much on the woo balls / energy tupperware budget?
With much respect to @Spice_Weasel and her great wisdom I’m definitely not advocating he completely block her from financial freedom or doing any other kind of abuse.
I don’t think he needs to keep a secret account or anything like that
He needs to tell her, kindly and with understanding that they are going to stop discretionary spending(himself, as well) til they get the retirement fund or the bathroom remodel fund or whatever up to where it needs to be.
Seriously buying a crystal ball is not like furthering you education or preparing to write a book. It’s just foolish. I don’t care who thinks they’re powerful or energy giving or karma increasing it’s a stupid thing to spend $350 on. Its not a $12 cookie jar.
No one can get anything from a crystal ball but the decor advantage. It’s nothing else.
I don’t think his marriage has to be over. She can change. He can change.
He’s just got to get a handle on it first.
I agree with this entire post. The people saying you should restrict her, cut off her money, open a secret bank account or whatever are completely wrong. She is an equal partner in your marriage, and an adult, and you can’t and shouldn’t treat her like a child. Your money is her money, and vice versa. Trying to cut her off or hide money would do a lot of damage to your marriage, IMO.
Go the adult route. Sit down with her, explain your retirement requirements, how much money you have and are likely to get before retirement, etc. Come to an agreement on how much money you need for retirement, and show her the plan for getting there. You could consider auto-deductions into a retirement account so that the amount of liquid cash she gets to play with is smaller and your retirement is always cared for. But show her what you want to do and why, No secrets.
If I were you, I’d go the cooperative, helpful route, with expectations. Tell her that yoj will help with her business. Set up a budget, how much she wants to spend and on what. Establish the expectations for return, and conditions for ending the experiment. Also, make her make some hard choices. “Sure, we can do this, but it means we can’t go out on Saturday Nights, and we’re going to have to avoid takeout food for a while. I’ll skip my Starbucks coffee, and you can’t buy any new shoes or clothes (or whatever else she spends momey on) until we figure this out.” You sacrifice too, and make it clear to both of you what her lark is costing.
If you are worried about credit card debt, come up with a reason for switching to American Express You have to pay the balance off at the end of every month. That will bring the spending pain home quicker where she can see it. Or, tell your bank to lower your credit limit. Even better, ditch the credit and use debit cards for everything.
Do not try to control your wife. It’s wrong, and it will backfire. Support her, set conditions and explanations, talk through your concerns, help her find her way through this mess. One option might be to find something more productive that she can focus on. Maybe you should start a business, but something other than woo nonsense. Tell her she can use her powers to help, but the business ahould be something she’s interested in and won’t bankrupt you if it fails. Something like an Etcy store.
One last thing: Is it possible that she’s acting out against your own spending? Do you buy stuff she doesn’t think you need, or spend money on yourself in ways she doesn’t like? Or now that she doesn’t have much income are you controlling the money or giving her a hard time about spending that you don’t apply to yourself? If so, one answer would be to show her through example. Do,without things you normally get, and if she asks why just say, “I want to support your business idea, and we don’t have money for both.” Which would not only be true, but would make it clear to her that her actions are causing you to have to sacrifice. Maybe that would help her decide to pull the plug once things don’t work out.
It occurs to me that someone who is not good with money probably should not set up a business. That’s just IMHO, though.
Agreed
Buying a $350 crystal ball is not what breaks anyone’s retirement fund. Doing it every week, on the other hand, certainly is. But healthy, sane people spend money on stuff that doesn’t do anything all the time. They spend $350 on concert tickets, or a vacation, or new drapes. I just planted $200 of epimedia which I’m afraid are all going to be eaten by rabbits. Talk about wasting money…
The problem isn’t what she’s spending it on. It’s whether she’s spending too much overall on stuff they don’t need. It’s not completely clear from the op whether she is or not.
That’s something the two of them need to work out. How much discretionary spending can they afford? But unless they are living hand to mouth, that number is more than zero. And maybe she can only buy a crystal every third month. But there’s some amount of crystals she can afford, if that’s what’s makes her happy. Maybe it means no eating out, or no beer, or no new clothes. They need to set priorities. But she should get some of the discretionary spending to satisfy her priorities. So long as he also gets some of it for his priorities, and so long as they don’t spend, overall, so much that they can’t pay the bills and save a reasonable amount for retirement.
IMHO, the problem goes far deeper than money.
People keep discussing the money as if it’s the real issue. It’s only the surface symptom.
Something has gone seriously mentally wrong with the OP’s wife. Treating the mere symptom (her obsession with woo and reckless spending) is just putting out fires or playing whack-a-mole. The OP must find out just what is driving his wife to behave like this; there’s a serious deep, root, problem.
This makes absolute sense, and is indeed the mature, adult way to go about solving this problem.
My fear though (from the limited information we have at hand), is that Akaj’s wife may just say something back along the lines of
“I just can’t talk about material things like that. It weakens my energy, and makes my aura turn a black color. My tarot cards and new crystal ball tell me all I need to know. All this talk of “money” and “budgets” is just totally harshing my mellow. Why are you so mean to me? I need an apology right now.”
Either that, or Akaj’s wife may say something like: “I fully agree that we need 6 months’ emergency fund. How about we do that by (cutting out all sorts of expenses but leaving her woo/crystal spending untouched)?”
Yeah but it starts with the spending. He said himself that’s what worried him.
I agree with everything you say.
They need to stop the bleeding first.
Then work on the ‘why’
If she’s been doing this since her gig ended during COVID I guarantee he has a houseful of this stuff.
Tarot cards ain’t cheap.
I did not know that. I honestly had no clue what the law was with regards to what another spouse earns. In my marriage, my wife out earns me but I do the financial stuff/investing and we treat things equally. I didn’t know that that was a legal obligation though. What recourse does one have from someone who is financially damaging the family if one cannot, in times of necessity, take measures to protect the joint property? You could lose quite a bit to an irresponsible family member.
The point is to limit financial harm until the underlying issue is resolved. Now, perhaps, complete cutoff to the finances might exacerbate the issue and maybe it would just be better to each have a set amount of no questions asked money after the bills and savings are taken care of.
Wasn’t trying to be creepy. I’m just personally familiar with folks who have suffered decades long setbacks because of poor decisions from a spouse/family member. Some of whom weren’t always in their right minds. I wasn’t coming at this from a control freak standpoint but more along the lines of if marriage and life are going to last, potentially, into one’s 70s, 80s, or beyond it might be nice to have more than Social Security to live off.
ETA: you have a wonderful taste in cookie jars.
I’m so sorry that you’re dealing with this. You seem like a fair and reasonable person and you seem to respect your wife even when you’re feeling thrown off balance by behavior that doesn’t seem to come from logic or sense.
I don’t know what the answer is but I agree with the suggestions that say to appeal to her using language that meets her on her turf - that’s a good way to progress the conversation.
It is good to see her with a passion and interest and you don’t want to put a stop to it. You just need her to recognise that your energy comes from a different place to hers, and there’s no reason to be in conflict if you both keep a respectful awareness of each other.
Your energy comes from feeling like you have security for the future, and for you that’s having a budget and money in the bank. So can the two of you arrive at a budget that includes an amount that can be set aside each month to go to your wife’s interests? Then she can have a $350 crystal if she wants - it just might need to be saved for rather than an impulse buy. Hey - if it’s truly meant for her, it will still be there when she goes back for it.
And maybe you can agree that - at least in the beginning - any money she makes from this side gig can go into that spending account. She won’t be profiting off healing, she’ll be reinvesting it so that she and others keep benefiting from it.
Good luck!
If someone can figure out precisely why an otherwise-intelligent person believes in woo, then they should be given an award. There are millions of believers of there, and I don’t think anyone has figured out the root cause.
Overall I think @Velocity has this figured out. This rapidly blossoming desire for woo is the leading edge of total wackitude. As somebody said upthread, you can’t reason somebody out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. IMO all discussions of family finanaces to end up with a budget and controlled spending will end about as @Euphonious_Polemic says 7 posts up.
I also hear a lot of posters talking about wife starting a business. That’s IMO not supported by the OP’s comments nor the facts on the ground.
He tells us that when she was working as a massage therapist she made little money and she said then that one of her big goals was to figure out how to earn even less money by providing massages to people who can’t pay for them. Speaking as someone with several business startups under his belt … That was not the mindset of someone trying to create a profitable business; not even remotely. That was the mindset of someone steeped in the idea of “Do what you love and the money will (magically) follow.” Or maybe even just “Do what you love” with no thought to who / what will provide food and shelter. That non-business mindset was what she had pre-COVID while still working. That was then; before the woo had really invaded her mind.
I believe that any vague comments she has made now about starting a woo-ish business are entirely her telling him what she thinks he wants to hear. Which is a) a lie, and b) profoundly disrespectful. Or, perhaps worse, she’s sufficiently self-unaware that she doesn’t even know she’s doing either of those things. She’s just talking.
So what we have is a wife pursuing a hobby with zero real expectation of revenue and some significant expense vs their SES, at least as hubby explains it to us.
Someone upthread spoke of all advice threads being Rorschach tests where we each apply our personal history to the inkblot the OP provides. There is certainly a lot of validity to that comment. So full disclosure: I personally have not lived through anything remotely like this.
I do know several nutty misers who consider not using a teabag twice to be profligate waste. Despite more than enough income and wealth for lifestyles far beyond the life they choose to lead.
I also know several divorces over people taking leave of their rational senses in pursuit of spiritual and quasi-spiritual things. Which oddly enough all involved significant payments to some authority figure or a never-ending supply of paraphernalia. Eventually the non-woo-itude of the spouse becomes itself “energy draining” and the woo devotee seeks divorce even if the spouse is still willing to aid and abet their ongoing descent.
Sometimes the nuttiness is male, sometimes female. No pattern there.