This is not correct.
I can understand why people get upset over sports frauds. It’s a competitive endeavor where one team winning means another team lost. So when somebody cheats it undermines the integrity of the competition.
But I don’t see this in entertainment. “Blame It on the Rain” was a good song when I thought the two guys in Milli Vanilli sang it. But it’s still a good song now that I know some other people sang it. The fraud doesn’t undermine the value of the product.
In your eyes.
For some, it does and did. And in the present, YouTube celebrities are not like any of the celebrities you listed above; they are directly affected by their audiences/fans perceptions. Old-school celebrities were generally only beholden to the executives who held the purse strings for their projects. The levers of power have moved in entertainment; YouTube is entertainment democratized (for good or ill). And I’m not sure if you have noticed, but younger people these days REALLY aren’t in favor of “let’s keep allowing the same shitty behavior we always have without saying anything about it”; so the Try Guys (who I find annoying beyond belief, for the record) are right to castigate the guy who is potentially destroying their image and their paychecks.
The “product” was the two guys in Milli Vanilli singing the song, and they were no longer popular when it came out that they didn’t sing it. Their careers were shot.
I’m absolutely baffled how you can say you don’t see this in entertainment. Were people paying money to go to a Milli Vanilli concert after the lip-synching scandal? Have you really never heard of an entertainer who fell out of grace with the public because of shitty behavior or some character flaw?
Well, you are doing a very good job of ignoring and handwaving explanations as to why others feel the way that they do by asserting that you do not.
Just so that I can see if we are on the same page at all, I ask again, if someone cheated on your friend, would you remain friends with the cheater?
I disagree. I feel the product is the art not the artist.
Of course I have. But I’m able to separate the art and the artist.
Kevin Spacey is a brilliant actor. And we found out he’s also a rapist. I won’t go to another Kevin Spacey movie because I don’t want to support the work of a rapist.
But I still recognize that his acting is amazing. I just won’t see his work despite his talents. I don’t re-evaluate my opinions on his acting abilities now that I know he’s a terrible human being.
And to respond to Kron’s posts, these are my personal opinions. I understand my opinions are not universal truths. I assumed that didn’t need to be said.
Probably not. The relationship I have with my friends is an actual relationship.
Now answer my question in turn. Do you feel that the Try Guys are your friends?
And others disagree with you, which is why their careers came to an end when it came out.
See, it’s statements like this that make it seem as though you are saying you are better than those who can’t “separate the art and the artist.”
Right, but you asked why others would have a different opinion, and keep asserting that they shouldn’t have that opinion, because it’s not an opinion that you have.
I do not, as I said a few times in this thread, I found their material to be boring and sacchariney, and not something that I enjoyed at all. However, yes, there are many people out that that have formed parasocial relationships with these people, and do consider them to be their friends. In fact their material invites you in, to become not just a friend, but a part of their family. Once again, not something I’m into, but given their viewership, many were.
I am not offended or bothered by the scandal at all, I was just trying to respond to a question as to why the presenters and staff would be upset, as well as why their fans would be upset. I think I have done all that can be done at this point, you can lead a horse to water and all that…
I am also not sure what exactly your question is at this point, as your original question in the OP was why his colleges would make such a big deal out of it, and they are friends. Somehow you morphed it into their fans as well, which is fine, but it may have been why you had some confusion as to who I was talking about when I said I was talking about the people you were talking about in the OP.
Then I really don’t understand what you’re arguing. You don’t want to see Kevin Spacey movies because of his shitty behavior, so surely you can understand why Try Guy viewers don’t want to watch Ned because of his shitty behavior. Is there something else you’re not getting?
I’m not a Try Guys fan, so let’s assume you’re asking if viewers feel that the Try Guys are their friends. “Friends” isn’t really the right word, but many viewers certainly feel they have a relationship with them. “Parasocial relationships” were already mentioned in the thread; if you aren’t familiar with the term, you can learn here:
Right. The viewers care about the Try Guys’ character, or at least that’s what the remaining team members believe.
If they do, then they do and I say to them, knock yourselves out. I don’t need it justified to me, nor do I have any obligation to debunk it.
Of course their fans feel that way. It’s similar to the vicarious “friendship” guys/gals feel when they watch buddy/gal-pal movies. But the Try Guys are more like friends of friends who have invited you into their YouTube home. It’s their perceived personalities that fans like, and this guy’s perceived personality is no longer what the fans signed up for.
Just because you or I don’t feel that, surely you must be able to imagine how some people do.
Yes, the aspect I’ve been asking about all along; the level of anger directed at this particular celebrity over this particular act of shitty behavior.
Fulmer didn’t commit rape. He cheated on his wife. I posted a list of other celebrities who have cheated on their spouses without their careers ending over it. So I’m asking why Fulmer is different than those other celebrities?
Some people have offered explanations:
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Fulmer had identified himself strongly with being married. This is certainly true. Okay, if that’s the case then supposedly if it had been some other Try Guy the reaction would have been less. But the one person who repsonded to this theory said no; the others would have gotten the same response even though none of them are the “husband guy”.
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YouTube celebrities are different than other celebrities. People are saying they are seeing the real people on YouTube videos rather than a made-up preformance that we see in media like movies or television. But I gave other examples of celebrities whose public image involved them being “themselves” (or the public image they wished to project as their real selves) who weathered adultery scandals without losing their career.
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Times have changed. People are less forgiving of celebrities committing adultery than they were in the past. But I gave other examples of celebrities who are currently still enjoying active careers despite having affairs.
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The legal issues of the woman being his employee. But again, I gave examples of other celebrities who had affairs with employees without it ending their careers.
So none of the explanations that have been made seem to hold up to me. I understand that I’m in the minority here. I’m just asking people who disagree with me to explain to me why they feel the way they do - which includes explaining the apparent contradictions in those feelings that I’ve mentioned.
Despite the accusations that have been made against me, I do not have any ulterior motive here. I’m not saying that other people are wrong because they have different opinions than mine. I’m asking the people to have those opinions to explain them to me so I can understand them. That’s all.
I was saying I don’t see why people would be upset about it, at least not adult fans.
For me, it’s the spectatorial outrage and drama that I’m not understanding. I mean, an athlete gets caught using steroids. Yawn. An entertainer or politician gets caught philandering. Double yawn.
I can see why the Try Guys are taking it seriously; that’s something that directly impact their livelihoods and brand. But some random YouTube watcher? Why in the world would they care beyond maybe being apprehensive that somehow the “magic” would be lost without Ned. (if indeed such a thing is even true)
You are wrong once again. You should stop trying to guess what ulterior motives I have in this thread because I have none.
Yeah, that’s my impression too.
No? Maybe sue your own posts for slander, then:
This is what @k9bfriender meant by a “Why do hoomans do those weird hooman things?” question or statement. The “apparent contradictions” are because humans are not robots. That is all that is needed to explain it.
To you. Ask Lance Armstrong how many people didn’t care…
I think you’re missing the nature of the relationship between viewers and the Try Guys. People don’t watch them because they are comedians, sports stars, action heroes, politicians, or any of the other examples you provided. Read up on parasocial relationships. If after that you still don’t understand why this incident was upsetting to some fans, then I can’t help you.
Let’s not blow it out of proportion. The remaining Try Guys decided Ned’s behavior wasn’t helpful to their brand, so they cut him loose. I’m sure some fans were upset. But I haven’t seen widespread outrage, and most of the online drama seems to be stuff like this, with people arguing whether it was overreaction.
Let me state for the final time that it is not my intent to attack anyone else for having opinions that differ from mine. I am not saying those different opinions or the people who hold them are wrong. I am trying to understand those different opinions and that involves asking questions about them.
Meanwhile, here are posts that have been directed at me:
I’m done here.
[removed snarky post, better to let this die out]
Then why do you keep dismissing the explanations? They’re not hard to understand.
I would just point out that movie actors who cheated on their wives probably didn’t put their kids and wives in their movies with them. They also may not have made videos and social media posts including their kids and wives, or the scandal may have happened before social media was available.