I know a young man who is by all accounts a good man and devoted father. He is 34 and his daughters are 6 and 4.
The other day, while grinning ear-to-ear, he said his 4 year old daughter is “a fox”. I instantly recoiled and said that was an inappropriate comment regarding his daughter as I’ve only ever known the term to be used by men who are sexually attracted to someone they’ve called a fox.
I was sexually abused by my own father when I was young. Is that colouring my perception of appropriateness? Has the term morphed (like so many other terms) into something much less sexual that when I was younger? Am I overreacting? Would it bother you?
I’d be startled, but yeah, I’d ask him what he meant. It seems pretty unlikely to me that he meant it sexually, for two reasons:
Guys who want to rape their daughters tend not to talk about that (yeah, yeah, I know what you’re about to say, and he’s the exception).
Knowing plenty of 4-year-old girls, I find it far more plausible that she’d come up to him earlier and said, “Daddy, I’m a fox! And you’re a squirrel, and we’re friends, let’s play that we both have wings and can FLYYYY through the forest!”
To be honest I can’t say with certainty which words he used after that. My “feeling” was that he was doing that kind of smirky thing that had me believe he thinks she should be more valued for her attractiveness.
But again I didn’t ask questions about his meaning. I will do that the next time I see him. It could very well be innocent on his part.
I do agree likening his daughter to a sly fox, clever and bright-eyed is fabulous. I’m fairly certain it wasn’t intended that way but I’m absolutely going to get clarity.
I also agree that anyone who was going to actually sexually assault their child would not announce it. I don’t think he’s the exception at all.
I think my sensitivity may be heightened to sexualizing a child because of my own history but I don’t think other men are hell bent on assaulting their daughters. Thinking a statement is inappropriate is in no way the same as believing someone is doing something inappropriate.
I think child sexual abuse warrants fingernail-pulling followed by dousing the bleeding nailbeds with rubbing alcohol. But I do think it isn’t inappropriate for a father to take pride in his daughter’s (current OR potential) sexual desirability as something she’s got going for her. It beats hell out of “I’ma take this shotgun to any guy who looks at her”. In the case of this four year old I kinda hope he was projecting forward in time and thinking in terms of potential appeal. That she’s got the confidence and whatnot that will make her as foxy as she wants to be later on down the line.
Before I read the other comments I would have guessed more along the lines of “I’m a (insert make-believe animal here)” than anything sexual, but it would have depended heavily on the context and conversation surrounding the comment (which I don’t have):
For contrasting examples:
If four-year-old just walked up on all fours meowing or something, I’d lean heavily towards my first idea.
OTOH, if his comment came right after you commented that she was “cute as a button” or something, I’d lean towards your first instinct being correct.
ETA: this whole thread serves as a reminder that, as a man in a similar situation to the guy in the OP, I need to be extra careful about what I say.
I think most people would be fine with the idea of saying something like “she’s going to be a heartbreaker when she grows up”, although it’s still a little off with a kid quite as young as that. Perhaps that was his intent, although I definitely agree that “she’s a fox” (if meant in that sense) is well across the line into being creepy and inappropriate. Still, the most likely explanation is that he’s just inept at judging where that line is. I think it’s highly unlikely something that a pedophile would say (other than to another known pedophile). I’d be more concerned about his behavior around her when she reaches puberty.
How many mothers talk about how handsome their son is and how he’ll be a ladykiller? It most likely didn’t occur to him that seeing his daughter as good looking implied he wanted to have sex with her.
I don’t think I’ve describe a woman as a “fox” since Middle school …
You stated that you thought this father was a good man by all accounts … seems a pretty big leap to pedophile with just one word … keep watching and see if this is a problem … a man has a right to tell his daughter he thinks she’s pretty, especially if she’s not … if you get my drift …
True, but when I think of that, you typically hear, ‘she’s smart like a fox’ (or dumb as a fox) not just ‘fox’.
I think it would get my attention, but I’d let it go, at least for now. Maybe keep an ear open for other skeevy things, but in and of itself, I’d ignore it. There could be so many reasons. Anything from fishing for compliments to an awkward way of saying she’s pretty (could just be the word he used).
As for him not sexually abusing her because he said that and he wouldn’t if he was, the flip side is that he said it to see if anyone else says it about their daughter. These people, like anyone else doing things they shouldn’t, don’t find each other by accident.
I’m not sure if people in this area look for company, but just thought I’d toss it out there.
But going back, I see a bunch of people mentioned calling their sons ladykillers. This would just be a variation of ‘heart breaker’.
TLDR, unless he does or says other things that make you think there’s an issue, my suggestion would be to ignore it.