I know this is going to sound pitifully disingenuous, like I’m begging for compliments or something, but I’m seriously starting to wonder if I’m more of a minority than I would have guessed.
I take people at their word, and don’t give mine lightly. I don’t think that two wrongs make a right. I don’t play games. I believe that everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt (at least once). I think that everyone deserves to be treated with basic respect, even if I can’t stand them. I believe in personal responsibility. I don’t lie. I believe in old-fashioned concepts like honor.
Are these ridiculous, naïve traits for a 34-year-old woman to have? I certainly seem to be getting that impression.[ul][li]In this thread, I’m told that it’s acceptable to suddenly start ignoring a guy if he calls me before I get home from our date. Also, if someone’s acting like a jerk it’s ok to deliberately stand him up.[/li][li]In this thread, I’m told that jealousy and controlling behaviour are accepted and natural parts of any long-term relationship.[/li][li]And in this thread, I’m told that “bitter” is the same as “realistic.”[/ul][/li]These are just the most recent examples of the kind of cynicism and bitterness I seem to encounter around here a lot. (I’m not mentioning specific poster’s names because I’m not picking on them or trying to resurrect arguments: I’m merely using these threads as examples.) If there were only a hundred active members on the board it probably wouldn’t occur to me to notice, but Dopers are numerous and varied so I have to wonder: am I really such a minority, or is it just that relationship threads tend to draw misanthropes?
While on the one hand I’m only 34, on the other hand I’ve been lied to, cheated on, taken advantage of, etc. I believe that people are basically good, but I also know what they’re capable of. I’ve lived in 6 states and 3 countries (and on one military base), and have traveled to numerous other states/countries. I like to party. I’m educated. I’m an extrovert, and I get along with most people I meet. So, I’m not naïve, inexperienced, a Pollyanna, a hopeless romantic, etc. I’ll admit that I’m an optimist, but some people seem to think that I’m just in denial if I’m not a jaded, bitter, “get them before they get you” cynic.
I’m with you, Misnomer. I’ve often felt like this, and been called naive for being idealistic.
But I wouldn’t worry about it. Different people deal with reality in different ways. You and I are basically optimists, and we deal with it by hoping for the best and believing the best, but not being terribly surprised when people don’t measure up.
People are cynical, and bitter, and there’s a place for it. My SO is way more of a cynic than me, and it works out beautifully - he keeps my feet on the ground, and I keep him from being too dark.
I know that some of my friends also depend on me to be the cheerful, optimistic type, even if they gently make fun of me. I like to think I contribute to the world in my own small way.
I think sometimes those of us who agree with you just don’t speak up in those threads. I don’t really have anything new to add to them so instead of quoting someone and saying “Me too!” I don’t say anything. So it’s not that people don’t feel the same way you do, we just don’t speak up as often or as loudly as some of the dissenters.
I’d like to say this describes me, but self-deception being what is, I’d really prefer for someone else to describe me this way. But in general, I believe in these principles as well.
Here too, Misnomer. I try to deal with everyone starting from the assumption that they won’t fuck me over. I keep my eyes open but I don’t start off assuming the worst of them.
A friend of mine once described the attitude you mention as the elephant stick: you hold on to it and it keeps the elephants away. Does it work? Well, do you see any elephants around here?
I think a lot of people are so busy avoiding being screwed over that they wouldn’t notice if they had a good thing going.
I too believe that most people are good, or at least trying to be. It’s a big, confusing, overwhelming world. I try to do “the right thing” because:
[ul][li]There’s enough misery in the world without me adding to it.[/li][li]I can’t expect people to behave any better than I behave.[/li][li]It makes sense to me to treat people the way I myself want to be treated.[/li][/ul]
Misnomer, it’s tough times for us optimists living in a cynical world. Just remember that you don’t have to convince anyone of anything, keep smiling, keep treating people with kindness. I have what my husband sometimes calls a “terrible justice streak” where I will dwell on something because it wasn’t nice, or wasn’t fair. I know life isn’t fair and it’s full of challenges. Everyone’s perception of reality is different, and their experiences led them to believe what they believe. It might be unfathomable to us at times, but remember that they came to their own conclusions, and probably think the same about us.
The inner Taoist in me doesn’t allow me to get too riled up about anything (which is why, though I love a good Pit read, I keep my fingers out of there most of the time).
Just remember: your naive idealism probably makes a big difference in several people’s day, every day, even if you don’t know it. When everyone else is being cynical and bitter, your optimism could have been a, albeit brief, moment of sunshine in someone’s life. Sometimes you get thanked. Sometimes you don’t. Sometimes the moment passes so quickly everyone forgets.
I, too, have been used as a doormat, etc. All that good stuff. You live and learn, and know the warning signs in people so you can excuse yourself from their presence in the future. If I’d turned bitter and angry over it all, always assuming the worst, well. I wouldn’t be where I am today. You know, alive, happy, wealthy, happy marriage, and things are only getting better, etc. I’ve had my dark periods, but you know, that naive child in me just keeps bouncing back, stronger than ever. And smiling like a loon.
I’m not in here to piss all over the thread or the spirit of the OP. But my take is that people are essentially ambivalent. They want to be good but they want to hear their values and ideas resonate within you… if that doesn’t happen, few are open minded enough to consider an alternate view of reality to their own. As a result, most people come across as quite close minded, and too wrapped up in their own bullshit.
However, I’m not ready to throw my hands up at humanity in general. I’ve met enough special people and unique individuals to know that they are out there and worth searching out. When we cross paths, I usually know it.
Thanks for all of the replies … and from some of my favorite Dopers, too! <whew!>
No piss taken (or something like that). I didn’t really think of the OP as having a spirit or intent, just a genuine curiosity about how much of a minority my way of thinking makes me. And I can’t know the answer if I only hear from people who agree with me.
You won’t let me live vicariously through you, so you have to have some usefulness.
Misnomer, I know you’re not going to believe me, but I’m an idealist. I share many of the same ideals and qualities that you believe in and am usually outright naieve.
I cannot emphasize enough that I am not bitter. If you read what I have written it is honesty. I am not harshly reproachful of women and I am not mad nor morose of sentiment. My situation is simply my situation, I did not embellish.
I still meet women and really want to have a relationship and try, but in all honesty, and as I was trying to convey, women are not interested in a longterm relationship with me because of many of the reasons I outlined in that post. In my idealistic heart I wish it were so, that women really choose partners for Love and other ideals that are less physical. Unfortunately, my experience has not matched that idyll. Awareness of this fact does not equate bitterness.
