Am I responsible for debt my husband had before we got married?

In My Humble Opinion
61

[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
Just the opposite: it proves that trust is there. We tried the “our money” stuff and we fought like demons over the issue–in good times and bad. I finally opened my own account, which gave me at least the illusion of control over some of “our” money. He also opened his own account. True, we do not know how much is in either one’s personal account, but we share a joint checking and savings. The arguments about money have been cut to about a tenth of what they were. I am more comfortable, he is more comfortable and our bills are paid on time. No one should spend more than they are able–but Americans (myself included) love credit and “toys”, and not thinking about tomorrow (or retirement).

The guys that cheat are going to cheat–having a separate access to money is not going to change that one bit. There are all manner of ways to lie to a spouse about money, even with only a joint account.
[/QUOTE]

When I see phrases like “fought like demons,” and “illusion of control” I have to think arguments about money are symptoms of a deeper issue. Money is a symbol of power, and when I see that kind of power struggle I think some real work needs to happen. Is that what you want a marriage to be?

My husband and I have no issues at all about money. We have a joint account, we do not have revolving debt, we only buy what we can afford and we know that as long as we can pay the bills and buy food we’re basically okay. Neither one of us would consider making a purchase over $100 - or maybe even $50 - without consulting the other one. Money doesn’t seem to symbolize anything for us - it’s just a tool, without much emotional content.

62

I maintain a credit card and bank account in my name only, in addition to our joint accounts, because if, God forbid, something should happen to my husband, I’ll have a financial and credit history independent of his. It’s not about deceiving him, it’s about protecting myself.

63

[QUOTE=burundi]
I maintain a credit card and bank account in my name only, in addition to our joint accounts, because if, God forbid, something should happen to my husband, I’ll have a financial and credit history independent of his. It’s not about deceiving him, it’s about protecting myself.
[/QUOTE]

Oh gosh, you know what? This might sound a bit like I’m eating my words, but I have a credit card in my name too, for just that reason. I hardly ever put any charge on it, though, and my husband is the one who looks at the balances online. Still, it’s a very good idea.

64

[QUOTE=Sprockets]
That would be a very strange idea indeed, and anyone who thought that could be accused of being shallow, with some justification. As you can see, I said I felt it was “an indicator.”
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but an indicator of what? That TRUST is FUNDAMENTALLY LACKING. I confess that just sounds pretty ominous and authoratative to me, and I think you’re overstating things and overgeneralizing. Married folk have all kinds of financial arrangements worked out between themselves. Such arrangements could be driven more by practicality than by issues of “trust.”

You suggest trust means sharing everything financial. Others might define trust as not needing to. Given the wide range of financial arrangements I’ve seen in marriages (good ones and troubled ones), I don’t think joint finances vs. separate finances are a reliable harbinger of much at all that has to do with the emotional issues of the spouses or the trust they feel for one another.

65

[QUOTE=burundi]
I maintain a credit card and bank account in my name only, in addition to our joint accounts, because if, God forbid, something should happen to my husband, I’ll have a financial and credit history independent of his. It’s not about deceiving him, it’s about protecting myself.
[/QUOTE]

I’m with you. That was one of the first pieces of advice I got from my parents when I began managing my own money.

66

Gee, I wish I had some of the $$$$ stuff so I could tell you all what to do with and how to handle yours and what it all meant… :wink:

We have it made, nothing to fight over… And this is not either of us first rodeo.
I love being an exception…

67

[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver]
I wouldn’t say that is fundamentally different from what we do. No, our accounts aren’t separate, but we decide where all of our money goes ahead of time. We have an amount set aside that we can blow on fun stuff (like kayaks, incidentally), but that money comes out of the line on our budget.
[/QUOTE]
For us, particularly when we were renovating a house, it was more a practical thing because it made budgeting and payments easier to track. Budgeting was the same either way. You should have seen how crazy our bank statements were during the renovations, :eek: , when we completely gutted a three story house!

When it came to our independent interests, it was simply a lot less confusing to figure out that the $120 spend at Lotsa Stuff Superstore was for camping gear and not for the house. The camping gear would not have come out of that same account that the $150 for bathroom tiles did.

And as burundi said, it’s also good to have a back-up plan. Not in anticipation of divorce or break-up, but if Fianceephone was hit by a bus, I would have an independent credit history that says I make my kayak payments on time.

68

[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
I would assume that anyone who isn’t comfortable with “our money” probably isn’t going to be a good candidate for the SAHP arrangement and will not get into a relationship where that is a likely scenario.

But lots of SAHPs get allowances. That was the “traditional” arrangement for the “Leave It To Beaver” household.
[/QUOTE]

I happen to know a couple where I would say that the SAHM gives her husband the breadwinner an allowance. She’s the one who is obsessive about tracking down that last $.02, the one who wants to know how much was spent on that last tank of gas, etc.

He’s a doctor, and so far as I know, a nice guy, but he doesn’t care about keeping track of money. So he gets a credit card, no checkbook, no atm card, and raids his wife’s purse when he needs cash. Which bugs her because she ends up not having the (physical) money she thought she had. But I think she brought it upon herself.

69

[QUOTE=Eureka]
I happen to know a couple where I would say that the SAHM gives her husband the breadwinner an allowance. She’s the one who is obsessive about tracking down that last $.02, the one who wants to know how much was spent on that last tank of gas, etc.
[/QUOTE]

This is basically how it worked in my house when my dad worked and my mom didn’t. My dad was a school-teacher, and my mom stayed home to take care of me and later my sister, and so didn’t have a paying job for several years.

My mom, however, is excellent with money, and kept track of every single cent that came into the house. My dad was and is happy to be free of that responsibility, and left it totally up to her. Worked out great for them. I only wish that I had inherited my mom’s financial smarts.

70

[QUOTE=Eureka]
I happen to know a couple where I would say that the SAHM gives her husband the breadwinner an allowance. She’s the one who is obsessive about tracking down that last $.02, the one who wants to know how much was spent on that last tank of gas, etc.

He’s a doctor, and so far as I know, a nice guy, but he doesn’t care about keeping track of money. So he gets a credit card, no checkbook, no atm card, and raids his wife’s purse when he needs cash. Which bugs her because she ends up not having the (physical) money she thought she had. But I think she brought it upon herself.
[/QUOTE]

Yep, there are probably as many ways of dealing with finances in a marriage as there are marriages.

But the traditional 1950s model was “he made the money, paid the bills, gave her money to buy groceries and cover her and the kids personal expenses. What she could save from that, she could spend on herself.” Not that it ALWAYS worked that way - even in the 1950s there were plenty of housewives who did the family budget.

As I recall, its was at one time PromiseKeepers thing to take back the finances from your wife as part of reclaiming your leadership role within the family.

71

The thing is, hubby should pay for some of the household expenses. Now since she is the major, and apparently by a wide margine, breadwinner, he thinks he can opt out.

Well that’s not fair and spliting the household expenses based upon percentage of total income is fair. It is also fair that he spend his money on what he wants. He just needs to want to pay the IRS a little more. If he has his own account, then the IRS can take the payments from that account and not from a joint one.

72

[QUOTE=ivylass]
Sweetie, you have to quit running to your parents or his parents every time you hit a bump in the road. I don’t know if you’re going to hit them up for money or just bring them up to speed, but some stuff is none of their business.

I’m a bit confused about your finances. You make more than your husband, but all he does is buy groceries. Is that all he is able to contribute, or all he is willing to contribute?

If it’s the first, then you need a lawyer to get this IRS thing straightened out. If it’s the second, then you need to have a serious sit-down with your husband. Just because you make more than him does not mean he can use his paycheck as play money.
[/QUOTE]

The only reason I bring the parent thing into it is that I don’t want to end up being the one to pay HIS debt. I don’t care who pays it, but it ain’t gonna be me. I don’t run to my parents when I hit a bump in the road, I don’t need to. I make plenty of money. Again, I make enough to pay every household and personal expense that comes along.

He says it’s all he is able to contribute because he is a contract employee and making a low wage right now. And he’s sick, so he can’t do everything he needs to do, and I compensate for that. I feel like he should be able to get things done. I know how to get things done. Why can’t he find solutions to his own problems? When it comes to finances, I feel more like his mother than his wife.

Why did I open his mail? Because I signed for it and I wanted to know what the hell was going on. Then months after I think its resolved, another letter. Damn straight I’m opening that up. It affects me too, and despite all of my protests I am sure I will be the one to pay it. I’m completely stressed about this. I cancelled two out of three of my classes today so that I can work more and get my savings built back up to take care of this crap.

I’m not happy about this, but I don’t know what else to do.

73

Indygrrl - How committed to this marriage are you? You’re angry, understandably so. But is this something you want to get past? You said earlier that if you’d know about this and other reasons, you’d go back in time and presumably make a different decision. If divorce is inevitable, it’s probably better to do it sooner than later, as your expenses become even more entwined.

Have you discussed with him how this is affecting you and your marriage? What’s his response? How valid is his “I’m sick and can’t work as much” excuse? If you feel like he married you to revert back to childhood where someone else is the grownup, you need to tell him that it isn’t going to work and what you expect of him. Apathy can’t be allowed.

Good luck.

StG

74

What St.Germain said - are you in or out, Indygrrl? In means in all the way. If it’s out, then get out sooner rather than later.

75

[QUOTE=Indygrrl]

Why did I open his mail? Because I signed for it and I wanted to know what the hell was going on. Then months after I think its resolved, another letter. Damn straight I’m opening that up. It affects me too, and despite all of my protests I am sure I will be the one to pay it. I’m completely stressed about this. I cancelled two out of three of my classes today so that I can work more and get my savings built back up to take care of this crap.

I’m not happy about this, but I don’t know what else to do.
[/QUOTE]

You need to sit down with your husband and a lawyer and see what can be done with the IRS.

Is his illness chronic, or will he get better?

76

I had an IRS issue (thanks ex husband!). It would have affected my current husband except I had a very knowledgeable accountant (previous IRS employee), and every year he’s filed an innocent spouse addendum or whatever it’s called with our taxes. It is the only way to make sure my husband doesn’t get put on the hook for what are my liens (thanks ex husband!).

BTW are both your names on any mortgage? That will mightily complicate things for you. Find a top notch tax accountant, preferably one who is very experienced in working with the IRS.

Feel free to IM me if you want more details.

77

[QUOTE=ivylass]
Debt aside, I’d be more concerned that he felt the need to keep this from you. That’s not a good sign.
[/QUOTE]

Maybe he feels that he can take care of it himself and didn’t want to put his burden on her.

As far as her, I’ve never read a more selfish statement in my life. I understand not wanting to be dragged down with debt, especially someone else’s, but when you get married, it’s not about money, it’s about love and support.

Sorry, but IMHO, that’s part of getting married.

for better for worse, for rich or for poor, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, 'til death do us part: according to God’s holy ordinance

78

[QUOTE=diggleblop]
Maybe he feels that he can take care of it himself and didn’t want to put his burden on her.

As far as her, I’ve never read a more selfish statement in my life. I understand not wanting to be dragged down with debt, especially someone else’s, but when you get married, it’s not about money, it’s about love and support.

Sorry, but IMHO, that’s part of getting married.

for better for worse, for rich or for poor, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, 'til death do us part: according to God’s holy ordinance
[/QUOTE]
Well, to be fair, she might feel differently about it if he had been honest with her in the first place.

On the other hand, at this point, if Indygrrl wants to stay in the marriage, she is probably better off helping him to pay down the debt, in order to help form a foundation for a more secure financial future. The sooner the debt is gone, the sooner they can figure out how they can both contribute financially to the family.

79

[QUOTE=Indygrrl]
The only reason I bring the parent thing into it is that I don’t want to end up being the one to pay HIS debt. I don’t care who pays it, but it ain’t gonna be me. I don’t run to my parents when I hit a bump in the road, I don’t need to. I make plenty of money.

[snip]

I’m not happy about this, but I don’t know what else to do.
[/QUOTE]

Ehhh, I’m still not hearing a good reason to bring the parents into this. It’s not their job to clean up his mess, even if, as you say, “it ain’t gonna be me”.

I hate to break it to you, but you’re the one that married into the mess, whether you knew it or not really doesn’t make any difference. If he doesn’t clean it up, next in line isn’t his parents, honey, nor SHOULD it be. It’s you. I know, I know, you don’t like it, you’re sick of it, you shouldn’t have to be the one, etc., etc., etc. I know. But keep the parents out of it.

I’m also a little dubious about this, because in a prior thread you mentioned that your own parents help out with special expenses relating to your daughter. Of course, you downplayed it because you wanted to feel justified in telling them to go to hell about cutting her hair.

My husband and I had [note past tense] a daughter-in-law that called us regularly about son’s problems/crises/things she wasn’t happy with, and for awhile we felt roped into “fixing” them. But after awhile we realized, hey, they’re married, they can grow the fuck up and fix it amongst themselves. These are huge issues you’re talking about, what with money and parents and trying to build healthy relationships. Fix it yourself. Even if that means sucking it up and losing your tax refund or whatever. If you don’t like it, get out of the marriage.

80

I keep waiting for mention of a trailer.