Am I right that this guy shouldn't be asking for forgiveness?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I know this couple where the guy is always asking his wife for her forgiveness whenever she gets upset at him. Not just once, but over and over again as if the fate of the universe depends on her forgiving him.

The argument goes something like this:

Guy: I’m sorry, I forgot. [Starts talking about a new topic]

Girl: I don’t feel like talking. [It’s clear she’s upset about him forgetting. He promised her to do something and he forgot. He does this a lot, which is why she’s upset. The issue is that she relies on his promises and he usually lets her down by breaking them.]

Guy: I said I was sorry. What else do you want me to do?

Girl: I don’t want you to do anything.

Guy: So you’ll forgive me?

Girl: No.

Guy: I said I was sorry. Please forgive me and let’s forget about this.

Girl: No.

Guy: Then tell me what I should do?

Girl: No. It’s not my problem.

Guy: Why don’t you want to talk about this?

Girl: I’ve said everything I want to say.

Guy: Look, just forgive me and lets move past this.

Girl: No! [She’s mad now]

Guy: You’re being unreasonable. Lets just talk about this.

Girl: Get the fuck away from me. I don’t want to hear this bullshit again.

What’s annoying is that the guy won’t be deterred by his wife’s anger, and will keep asking her for forgiveness until he gets tired. Meanwhile, the wife just gets more and more upset.

IMO, if you ask for forgiveness once, and then someone says no, it’s pretty selfish to keep asking. I think the husband here feels guilty that his wife is mad at him, and wants her to absolve him of his guilt - without him doing anything about the problem.

I’ve tried explaining this to him, and he replies that he doesn’t know what else to do. He doesn’t like it when his wife doesn’t talk to him, and he can’t to anything about the fact that he forgot something, and his wife won’t tell him what else to do.

I think he should just wait until his wife stops being mad, or solve his issue with making promises that he can’t keep. I don’t know how to explain to him that his constant quest for forgiveness is incredibly selfish and annoying. What do you guys think?

2

I think you’re right. He wants to keep on doing the thing that bothers her and not make any effort to become more reliable. He’d probably get a lot further with her if he talked with her about what he could do to not forget the things that she is counting on.

3

The first thing he can do is leave her alone to calm down, like she asked.

Next, while he can’t do anything about the fact that he did forget, in the past, he can do things to help him not forget again, in the future. Or at least make it clear like he recognizes a problem area and is working to fix it.

Or perhaps he has cast aside all trappings of human civillization such that “next time I’ll …write it down/tell my phone to beep at me/plan to do [thing] at same time as [other similar thing]/establish a regular routine for doing [thing]/etc… to help me remember” is a patent impossibility.

By the way, his behavior – failing to do tasks he agreed to do, repeatedly and with a display of helplessness – is classic passive-aggressive behavior. His obvious fear of any outward indication of anger also fits the pattern.

4

What?

Um.

He should ask for forgiveness if it is required by either his ethos or for the resolution of normalcy in his marriage.

If just waiting for her to calm down will work, then that will be forgiveness. It may be that she won’t calm down.

If it isn’t your relationship, why would you be part of it? How could this ever impact you- and why are you even aware of this?

But yes- it does seem that he wants to be absolved by forcing her to respond to him by forgiving him…

He should walk away until she is able to calm down, if she has voiced that she needs a break before talking more.

5

The guy is an acquaintance of mine. I was at his house waiting to go somewhere at a certain time and this lovely argument broke out.

6

I think a lot of guys have in their heads that “I’m sorry” equates to “Now you must forgive me.”

It doesn’t work that way. You apologize once (or twice, or more, depending on the severity of the misdeed), and you don’t repeat the offensive behavior, but once that’s done, you let the aggrieved party deal with the offense and the apology in his/her own way and his/her own time.

So, no. He shouldn’t keep asking for forgiveness. It’s not something he’s entitled to, just by dint of having apologized.*

*Granted, IMHO, it’s kinda petty for the aggrieved party to nurse a grudge over minor offenses, but that’s a different issue.

7

Actually, assuming the OP’s version is accurate, it’s all part of the same issue.

Person A does something wrong.
Person B gets angry.
Person A tries to smooth it over.
Person B won’t budge.
Lather, rinse, repeat.

And her behavior is pretty classic, as well.

I don’t feel like talking.
I don’t want you to do anything.
It’s not my problem.
I’ve said everything I want to say.

This is the stage in the discussion where one of my parents would have said to the other, “You want a fight about this? All right, dammit, LET’S FIGHT!”

8

I teach my students that a good apology looks like this:

  1. I know [my behavior] was wrong.
  2. I’m sorry I did it.
  3. I won’t do it again.
  4. Here’s how I’m going to try to make it right…

Sounds to me like he wants to skip the steps that require work: 3 and 4. So why should she treat his apology as sincere or genuine?

If he’s constantly forgetting things, then he needs to change his behavior. Maybe he needs to buy a planner. Maybe he needs to stop committing to things that he might forget. Maybe he needs to write things on his hand. I dunno. But if he doesn’t plan to change his behavior, then he has no business apologizing for its consequences.

9

He won’t need to worry about forgiveness after a while, because she’s going to dump his ass and find someone she can count on.

10

Part of her gripe is that she wants him to solve simple issues himself. Does someone really have to inform a grown adult how not to forget things? That sounds like something you would tell your kids, not your husband.

They’ve been married 20 years. This wasn’t their first fight.

11

Well hell, at least he is AKING for forgiveness. at least THAT matters to him. Better than one the does shit and is mean and does not give a damn if you are hurt by his actions, words or lack of.:frowning:

12

This is classic My Parents. Dad does something to piss off Mom, she blows up, Dad says “I’m sorry” to try to mollify her, but does not correct the behavior. Lather, rinse, repeat.

They were married 42 years until death did them part (his), because inertia prevented them from getting a divorce. It was pretty ugly to watch.

13

No, not better.

The “don’t give a damn” guy says, in effect, “I’ll do what I want, it’s up to you to figure out how you want to respond to it.”

The “I’m sorry times infinity” guy of the OP says, in effect, “I’ll do what I want, and then I’ll try to control how you respond by forbidding you from being angry about it.”

At least the first guy isn’t a controller. Your OP guy adds insult to injury.

14

It seems a little weird that she doesn’t want to talk about it at all, though. He asked what he could do to make it better and she says it’s not her problem, which seems like a bizarre thing to say. What are they supposed to do then? Live in silence till she forgives him? Go on living their regular lives while she’s still mad at him?

15

I suspect she’s pissed off at him, but she knows she’ll get over it. If they’ve been married for 20 years, she has a pattern. But when he’s asking for her to be over it RIGHT NOW, that just keeps her angry: it’s a new offense. Since his apology is insincere, she just wants him to STFU for a bit.

16

I agree with what LHOD said, but I’ll also add that if she does tell him to do or say anything, he’ll quickly agree to it as a way to end the problem without really understanding it.

If that happens I imagine the next argument will be: “I’m sorry I didn’t write things down like I said I would, lets just forget this and move on…”

I know this because he does this with me. He usually agrees with me in order to avoid real substantive talk about his problem.

There are ways in which the wife could handle things better, but I don’t think I would be able to keep my cool if I had to deal with a SO like that.

17

Which is not to say that she won’t get fed up with it, but after 20 years, they must have their dance pretty well choreographed. Oh well.

18

during our first two years, my wife would leave me for good on the average once a month. i think saying sorry each time is a lot easier than adjusting to having a wife / no wife every month.

19

Well, this has been illuminating.

Why does she keep asking him to do stuff for her?

I am very forgetful and my ex-husband used to HATE it. He thought I was doing it on purpose. I showed him 12 years of report cards from school, every. single. one. of. which. had “forgetful and careless” on it. Today they’d say ADD, without a doubt. I TRY. I swear to dog I try so freaking hard and I would tell him, “I don’t know if I’ll remember it…please can you remind me…” But he resented that.

I just wasn’t good at that, no matter how much I wrote stuff down, no matter how many strings around my fingers.

And he would keep making the same demand and keep getting angry, even when I started to just plain refuse to do that type of thing because I didn’t want to disappoint him.

So I kind of feel for this guy. Not totally, but I understand what it’s like to be crap at something and have your spouse hate you for it. It sucks.

I think there’s a difference between saying, “you can’t be angry” and saying, “you know how much I suck at this and you’re free to leave but please do not try to make me feel any worse than I already do.”

And “do what he wants” assumes that people are forgetful on purpose.

This thread is interesting because I see how many people think this guy is doing it on purpose. Wow. People must think I’m a real bitch!

20

I’m not trying to defend your ex, 'cus I never met him and he could be a total douche, but I have to ask are you employed at all? Surely you must have to remember things at work? Because I think being 'forgetful & careless" would make it pretty hard to hold down a job. Do you have ADHD? Are you medicated for it?