Am I the only one who thinks Vice Young is not a good quarterback, and is regressing?

Cafe Society
1

He’s something like 32nd in passer rating with an abysmal 61.5 (not a perfect system, to be sure, but overall a good reflection of QB quality), best single game rating of 78.6, 3 TD’s, 8 INT’s, no TD’s since week three. Has led his team to over 20 points only once. He hasn’t passed for 200 yards in a game this year, and has four of seven games of 120 yards or less.

Yes, his team is 6-2, but this is in spite of him, not because of him. He has probably the best defense and one of the best running games in the league to bail him out. He’s basically there now to not crash the Ferrari, but my point is, you don’t pay All-Star money to someone whose there not to crash the Ferrari- you can get Brad Johnson or someone to do that for 300k a year.

Last year he got his rep I guess as a guy with several comebacks in the 4th quarter, but I saw most of the games and to me it was more the stupidity of the prevent defense coupled with a good runner that defenses had never played before. Now that he’s getting his second go around with most teams, they have planned defenses to stop him, and its working- he has rushed for more than 27 yards in a game only once this year, so he’s not even got that going for him anymore. What’s he going to do when defenses start realizing that all they have to do is stop the run and take your chances with Young beating you, chances are he won’t? And keep in mind, this is a guy who got one of the worst Wunderlicht scores ever for a QB.

When Trent Dilfler was playing for the Super Bowl Ravens, Brad Johnson for Tampa, and even Rex Grossman last year, all just there to not lose the game, no one was going on and on about how great they were. Last Sunday Young was 14-23, 110 yards, 1 rushing TD and 2 picks, and one article I saw has the headline “Young, White lead Titans to win”- that 3 yard run by Young was worth first mention in the headline?

Why is the media so reluctant to say this guy is not doing so well? Other QB’s with similar stats- Leinhart, Alex Smith, Grossman, all are taking shit for their poor play, and have their starting status questioned, but not Young- why? Kerry Collins certainly isn’t the answer, and if piling up regular season wins against Oakland and Houston is what you want, I say fine. But this guy is not going to go head to head with Brady, Manning, or Roethlisberger and win a big game with his QB play ever, yet he’s making millions. Why can’t I find one ESPN talking head that doesn’t gush when talking about him? Are they afraid to look stupid for building him up last year?

2

As a person whose fantasy football starting quarterback is Vince Young, and who would be 7-1 if Young could just approximate a league average performance, but who is instead 3-5, I would just like to say:

I agree.

3

The Madden Cover Curse strikes again.

4

I dunno about the Madden Curse. He didn’t get injured or anything, he was just a bit overrated coming into this season. The natural choice was LaDainian. I like to think that he was passed up because some honcho over at EA had him in a keeper league and didn’t wanna screw anything up.

5

Those scores are even less relevant than passer ratings.

I would guess it’s because he’s an exciting player, and people watch their networks to see exciting players who produce highlights, so they don’t want to dump on him. And as you said, his team is winning, which covers up a lot of flaws.

6

Right now, Rush Limbaugh is securely tied to a chair in my kitchen, with duct tape over his mouth. He’s going red in the face and hopping the chair around the room, because he’s so eager to answer this question. :stuck_out_tongue:

7

No he did get injured earlier this year. But he was already sucking before that. I think part of the problem is: last year he was running around like a Michael Vick and everybody was afraid he was going to get hurt doing so, so they made him stop running. without his best talent (running), he really is not that great of a QB. Let him run Jeff Fisher!

8

I’m not a Tennessee fan or a U of Texas fan, but Vince Young is truly something special. You can’t look at his stats…he just wins. And not in the way that Grossman won, where the Bears would win despite him. Tennessee wins because of Young. And even when he loses, he gives his team a chance to win. Their 2 losses this year were by a combined 5 points.

In my experience, any time anyone says anything negative about Young, he’s guaranteed to make them look bad. Just the existence of this thread tells me to bet on Tennessee this week. Look for them to dismantle Jacksonville. And Jaguars fans: you can thank Wee Bairn for your team’s next loss. :wink:

9

Last year I would agree, he was instrumental in most of the wins, even if he did nothing all game he would orchestrate the winning drive at least. But he’s not doing that this year. I would agree with Marley23, that last year he was exciting, but compare this years highlight reel to last years and I think you’d see a big dropoff. Two games ago he passed for 42 yards and ran for 20 something, last game passed for 114 and ran for 27- not a lot of excitement there.

10

Perhaps if he had fewer VICES, he would be a better quarterback.

11

The young QB who really impresses me is Derek Anderson. The guy is big and accurate and has a lot of confidence (not to mention some good skill players around him). Leinert, Young, Cutler, and Rivers I am not so hot on.

12

Surely this is hyperbole. I mean, nothing could be less relevant to assessing QBs than TD passes, interceptions, completion percentage, and passing yards, right?

13

His throwing motion is not good. It wasn’t a problem at Texas, because they play a lot of shitty teams. When he runs with the ball, it is like he was playing keep away when he was in college. In the pros, it is tougher for him to run. But, there is no sport that is more bottom line focused than football. And the bottom line is that, so far, Young wins more games than he loses.

14

The answer is pretty simple – it’s all about the W’s. It’s hard to be too critical of a 6-2 record. There is also the fact that he has some intangibles like field presence and leadership. Plus, people still haven’t forgotten that NCAA championship game against USC where he had one of the most memorable QB performances of the last 20 years. I think a lot of observers in the media feel like that potential is still there for him in the NFL and it’s only his second year.

I guarantee that if his win-loss record takes a dive, the criticism will come.

15

Not really. In my opinion, the passer rating takes stats that have varying degrees of relevance (TDs and INTs are important; completion percentage, without respect to yards per attempt or completion, doesn’t mean much, and raw yardage needs to be viewed in terms of attempts as well) and combines them into a single measurement has almost no relevance.

16

In the passer rating, it is. (Which you should know before you dismiss the passer rating.)

So you’re saying if completion percentage were pulled out of the passer rating, it would then be a meaningful stat?

17

You’re right, my mistake.

Not really, no. I think the individual stats categories are meaningful, but that doesn’t mean the amalgamated stat is a good way to compare QBs.

18

Vince Young’s stats are very similar to John Elway’s at the same point in their careers. Except for the wins.

It is quite rare for a QB to come into the league and put up big numbers right away.

19

Yeah, I think it’s two things at play (as others have mentioned)…first, other teams didn’t have much tape on him last year, and secondly, when a QB runs a lot, it can often mean it’s a busted play or he checked down and receivers were covered, so he took off. Being a rookie, my guess is he was quicker to take off rather than be patient and wait for the play to develop.

This year, he’s probably trying to be more patient and check down 3 or 4 receivers, giving him less of a chance to find a hole to run through.

Also, the Titans’ receiving corps isn’t much to write home about after they lost Drew Bennett to free agency. Their leading receiver only has 23 receptions/1 TD.

20

What is a good way to compare QBs? I’m interested in the actual nuts and bolts of how you think it should work.