I know, right? So loving. They’re so caught up in their own bubble, so indoctrinated into their worldview, that they cannot see anyone else. I remember a term that hit me like a ton of bricks as I was trying to get emotionally healthy from my time in. It was called “perspective taking”, and it changed my outlook on life. I was blown away. Why would I want to do that, I thought. sigh, they had me so turned around and stole my humanity for a long time. Obviously, as a kid, I never stood a chance.
One of the first posts I started on the ex-JW forum that I joined when leaving the religion was about the tragedy in Nepal with the earthquake. I wasn’t officially out yet, so posting on such a forum was huge to me. Anyway, I noticed that on the official site of Jehovah’s Witnesses there was a slight mention under news about a couple JWs that died and no mention of any of the rest of humanity and it set me off. It’s interesting to me to look back at me waking up. Here’s the thread if anyone is interested:
1 Cor 5:9-13 is a scripture that they use, the foremost I believe, to support their shunning policy. In it the verse says to stop mixing in company with such bad people, “not even eating with such a man”. Her family is focusing on that last part and picking it out so that they can “technically” be okay in trying to find some way to justify not following the strict JW shunning policy. My guess is that it’s because she has kids, or more because THEY have grandkids, they couldn’t care less about her. It’s all about them, as in most any interaction with Jehovah’s Witnesses. She can’t just drop by because what if they had something planned with fellow JWs that day? They can’t have her just stopping by and blowing their deal.
Like I believe I said earlier at some point, not everyone follows the shunning to the strict degree that is mandated. Beneath that JW shell lies a real human being with feelings, and sometimes those feelings win out. Most of the time the cult personality wins.
As to your second question, yes they track people. If you move the congregation nearest you is sent your “publisher record card” with all of your details and a letter about you and how you left the previous congregation. So let’s say that you move to another area and don’t tell the congregation where you went. You think you’re home free. However, if anyone (like your parents) is a good JW they will tell the elders in your old congregation where you went so the elders at the new area you moved to can come and save you. They’re loving in that way. They love control. Some people can successfully move and not be followed. It also depends on how diligent the elders are about following through. Some let things go. Again, although a cult, not everyone behaves exactly as they are “supposed to”.
Fun Fact: They track you too. All congregations have a territory, divided into small territories that members check out and work door to door. In their quest to reach everyone, they write down all not-at-homes so that they can return, often noting the day, date, and time so that they can return at a different one and hopefully catch you. It keeps them busy. We also wrote down when you expressed interest or took anything from us or even were nice so that we could come back another time and follow up on your interest. Taking that magazine to get rid of them only encourages them to come back again soon and puts you on their radar specifically.
No, it was the same. And it is true that the name given to Yavé varies by language, but the same is true of many other Biblical names (Gabriel, Daniel, David, Pedro, Jesús, José, María, Magdalena… even if they’re spelled the same in Spanish and English, they are pronounced differently), or of more recent ones such as Londres or Francisco. That paragraph indicates a deep ignorance of both Hebrew and language evolution.
Mike- I am new here and have just read every post in this thread.
I just wanted to say that you are an amazingly strong person, because that is what it takes to make it through something like this.
There was something you wrote in an earlier post that really struck me; “I would rather be shunned for doing the loving thing than loved for doing the shunning thing.” I think that speaks volumes about any organized religion, no matter what they believe in, that follows such practices. To interpret the bible in a way that you see fit, and then use that as an excuse to treat other people in such a cruel way.
On the other hand, that statement speaks volumes about you as a person as well.
We are all human beings, struggling through life, and it is much better to be kind and loving towards others, no matter how different they are, or what God they might believe in.
As more and more time passes, I think life will just continue to get better and better for you and your wife.
I am thinking on some questions for you, if you’re still up to answering them.
Thank you for starting this thread and sharing all of your experiences.
Funny thing, I once found a small Learn Hebrew book in my dad’s basement and read some of it. It said that the Jews had יהוה for the name of god, but that it was a sacred word that must never be uttered, so they used a substitute word when speaking. Oddly, I thought the real surname of pope John Paul II must have sounded very similar to that substitute word.
I have a few questions about Prince, whom I have seen described as “Jehovah’s Sexiest Witness” around the internet.
From what I gathered from reading interviews he gave in recent years, he was a self-described devoted JW, and talked as if he took the religion very seriously. Attended meetings (where he was known as Brother Nelson) and everything. Blew me away, actually, to read that Prince, PRINCE…was a JW. These two things just don’t go together!
So my question is, what is your opinion of how the inner workings of the church, regular everyday JWs really viewed him? Did the Elders probably really just like his money? Did they see him as a big GET, as in saving one of the biggest of all “worldly” people? Do you think they were nice to his face and disdained him behind his back? How did they reconcile all this with the policies on popular music you listed above?
Because, I seriously doubt they were jamming to Gett Off and I Wanna Be Your Lov-ah in Prince’s Kingdom Hall!
MJ & Gladys being JW don’t shock me nearly as much as Prince. In fact Gladys Knight is the epitome of a church lady these days. I know he toned down alot of the raunch and fluid sexuality in his last years, some of that just comes with age, but he was still Prince, and they guy was still performing and being provocative.
And especially in light of how he died, I truly wonder how much his devotion to being a JW might have contributed to that. Did it play a role in his not seeking help sooner, possibly?
I hope this isn’t seen as a thread hijack. I really want to know justanothermike’s opinion about how the church explains this one away.
Prince was in chronic pain due to joint damage that surgery might have been able to remedy, or at least make less painful, but major surgery in JW’s is problematic due to the prohibition on any and all blood transfusions, even self-transfusion with your own banked blood. Were it not for that, he might have been more willing to undergo surgery and might have avoided heavy dependence on pain killers.
Maybe.
But yeah, it would seem to be a contributing cause.
You’re very welcome, and thanks for the kind remarks. I have to say that JWs made me a very judgemental person that honestly kind of hated other people. I just didn’t like anyone much. That person you see now in my comments is a product of things that led me back to who I was before all of this, who I was at my core.
I read a book called “Healing The Shame That Binds” and it in the author says to get a picture of yourself at an age before things changed for whatever reason and shame crept in. I found this great picture of my on my dad’s shoulders and he was laughing hard and I was laughing with my little baseball cap on and just having a great time. I looked at that picture all the time and reconnected with who I was before all of the religious garbage that was heaped upon me. I also chose a picture of myself and my younger brother who had been shunned before me riding on some sort of little car ride at a carnival. Those were good times. I wrote a little poem with it and posted it on Facebook. It went something like:
Before religion
Before the shame
We were all just kids
Playing the game
Going back to that time made me realize how calloused I had become. Jehovah’s Witnesses and their abuse, couple with a very emotionally abusive father, and a mother with her own issues, really helped form me into an unfeeling, angry, depressed, narcissist.
Between 2008 and 2015 I really unraveled a great deal of that stuff. Life is good and will continue to get better.
Feel free to answer any questions you may have. Thanks for your interest. It kind of helps on some level to share, to put things out there and get them out of my system to people that are genuinely interested. Libby (without the e) is the nickname my little sister went by. I hope that maybe someday she wakes up and gets out too. I saw her briefly at hospice with my dad for a few minutes, but other than that I really haven’t seen her in a couple of years. She’s about 20 years younger than me, so she’s 19 now, I think. So she has lots of time to see the man behind the curtain and wake up. Sadly, she’s an uber-JW right now, as I was at her age.
Ah, you had to bring up Prince, lol. Before Prince there was Michael Jackson. Serena Williams also gets thrown in the mix. I’m probably forgetting others. Let’s go with Prince though and how that all worked.
Yes, he was a big GET. JWs love to eschew all things “worldly”, but if they can get one of those things and make it their own then they love to bring it up. Now, you’ll always have the extreme JWs on the holier than thou end that will turn their nose up at him and claim that he was never a REAL JW, but then others that love saying that he was because on some level they think it brings them street cred and makes JWs cool on some level.
The fact (I think) that he was abusing drugs (prescription or otherwise) and was still allowed to have his memorial service in a Kingdom Hall is amusing. They wouldn’t do that for other people. It was a PR move. A chance to show off their beliefs. I believe they even let people talk about him during the service. They don’t do that for anyone else. All memorial services are given from an outline that is basically just a sales pitch for their beliefs.
As for his music, it seems like he had toned it down in recent years, and that’s all that matters. They don’t care what you did in the past, so long as you’re not doing that now. The guy that studied with Prince and brought him in was from Sly and the Family Stone (?) and I believe he was featured in articles from the Watchtower magazines in the past. They love to showcase those that leave fortune and fame to come be a JW.
I hope that answered your questions. Let me know if you have any others. I did LOVE the fact that JWs got all excited over the possibility of a huge inheritance from Prince only to find out that there was no will and they had no rights to his estate. That made me smile. JWs don’t actually think that they’re going to die in “this system of things” because we’re so close to the end, so many don’t have wills or even life insurance. My dad died without either.
Edit to add: I now see conversation about Gladys Knight. I don’t know anything of that. As far as Prince not getting medical treatment due to his being a JW, that likely played a role. If he needed major hip surgery and that could have led to the need for blood transfusions, that would put him in an awful position. It is tough at times to find someone to do bloodless surgery, and if nothing else it increases risk because now one way of saving your life falls off the table. I can’t speak to what the man thought of felt, but it would have to come into play. I don’t know how current JWs reasoned it away though, as I was out prior to that and didn’t see a lot of chatter on the interwebs about it from current JWs. I’m pretty sure they just changed the subject or somehow used thought stopping techniques to avoid it.
I have a relative that married a girl that was JW. She was out of the church when they dated. After they married (in a Baptist Church) she rejoined and pulled my relative in with her. They’ve been JW thirty-five years.
He’s always very quick to help out. Actually anxious to help and do favors. He’s helped my mom (fixing stuff) several times.
He’s always been a nice guy. We grew up together. But this behavior seems more like an obligation that he has? Is this connected with him being JW?
Nah, sounds like he’s just one of those people that either likes to help people or needs to on some level internally or he feels guilty if he doesn’t. JWs are taught to be nice to people, but usually just so long as it might further their interest in “the truth” that they peddle. They do no real charitable work and discourage donating to charities. All efforts, according to them, are best spent in their own work of spreading their message.
You’re all very welcome! It’s funny that I’ve received more interest now than I ever did in the thousands of hours spent knocking on doors over the years.
