What the hell does that have to do with your argument?
ETA: simulpost.
The United States used to put a lot less people in prison and had a high crime rate. We started putting a lot more people in prison and the crime rates went down. That is about as close to a proof as you get in the social sciences. The idea that putting people in jail prevents them from committing crimes outside the jail seems logically valid. Although I could argue that our current laws are probably less than optimal, since a have strong reservations about laws based on based on baseball metaphors.
Country to country comparisons are almost useless you can correct for demographics. If you look a the murder rates for whites in the US it is quite comparable to European countries.
BTW, if you compare the robbery rates for England and the U.S. The rates in England are now much higher in England than the U.S. I think that is directly relevant to my point that people who are afraid to leave their homes are not free and that criminal can reduce your freedom and not just the government.
Jesus.
The sales of Dr. Pepper increased over the same time period. I propose that when people drink Dr. Pepper, they commit less crimes.
But none of this actually supports your ridiculous claim that people in England are afraid to leave their homes.
I don’t see it, Joel. Those stats do show a downwards trend starting around the late 90s/early 00s. The problem with your theory is that American incarceration rates started booming upwards in the late 70s/early 80s (Yes, it’s a wiki graph, but it was made using the same source as your stats). Which, incidentally, is also when privatized prisons got in on the action.
Now, if your theory that putting people behind bars stopped them from acting criminally was correct, then the trend should have immediately followed the increased incarcerations, wouldn’t it ? How would you handwave away that decade of lag between cause and effect ?
Not to mention, the grand majority of people in US jails today are there on drug charges, not violent crimes, assault, burglaries or whatnot (Wikipedia has it at 60%). I don’t know about you, but I’ve never seen anyone on weed hitting anything besides the bong.
Cite confirming this claim (google translated from dutch)
But anyways, don’t want to hijack this thread too much. Here’s a recent thread on the exaggerated claims of anti-traffickers. Of course it sank like a stone as no one showed up to defend those claims in the face of actual facts. But whenever sex work is mentioned in another thread, there’s always someone ready to make those claims. Why is that? :dubious:
Because it seems to have become one of the pillars of modern feminism that women cannot possibly ever consent to be a prostitute, and so therefore can only be doing it against their will. Even if they consent to do it, they’re actually just unwitting victims of a deeply misogynistic society that despises them and wants to reduce them to cum buckets etc etc. I don’t know how this is supposed to jive with one of the even more basic tenets of feminists which is that women are quite capable of deciding what they want for themselves, just as much as men are (and if men can disproportionately sell themselves into armed service a la the military I don’t see why women can’t become hookers).
I’m sure there are plenty of women who are fucking for money who’d prefer not to, but I’m absolutely certain that there are far more people saying “would you like fries with that?” who equally wouldn’t.
I am not afraid to leave my home. To my knowledge, I do not know anyone who has been robbed or mugged.
Your imaginary picture of the UK is entertaining, but has nothing to do with the real world. I’m sure you know better having read a website with sone statistics on it somewhere, which clearly overrules my life here for 37 years now, and I’ll bow to your superior knowledge of the crime ridden streets and fear of leaving the house that I obviously experience but am mentally blocking out in done kind of optional Alzheimers.
I feel very free. But, hey, you know better.
Interestingly, my government does not hold my fingerprints. Yours does, because they’re taken upon entry to your free country. My own government does not have then, but a foreign power does. Yeah, we’re sooooo unfree here.
Gladly.
I got my information from this book which is about modern slavery:
A Crime So Monstrous by E. Benjamin Skinner
Here’s a Cincinnati museum piece focussing on it.
For the record, I’m not anti-sex worker. But open your eyes. Slavery is involved.
Slavery is involved in fruit-picking too. I’m not going to stop eating fruit. But slavery must be acknowleged where it abides.
No disrespect but you did come to the U.S. as a foreign person from another country which is sure to raise some red flags in these days of terrorist bliss :). I am American and I don’t think the any U.S. or state government has my fingerprints. I am a little jealous. I guess I am not interesting enough. Actually you do hint at a good point. The U.S. is generally good about respecting freedoms except when you want to move from one place to another using some forms of transportation. God forbid! The National Transportation Agency after 9/11 makes you not just feel like you are living in Mother Russia’s womb but sometimes wish for it instead. I have to to go because I have to fly domestically tomorrow and I have to check my daughter’s bags in case they brought a semi-liquid substance in a container over 3.2 oz. :smack:
Can you provide a link to the claim that most people in prison are there for possession of drugs as opposed to possession of deadly weapons or violent crimes please?
Also, don’t most western democracies put people in jail for dealing cocaine, heroin, and meth?
Also, is the percentage of prisoners convicted of dealing weed that high?
No one said it doesn’t exist at all; I’m disputing the (oft made) claims that most prostitution involves slavery, and that this is an even bigger problem in countries with legal prostitution.
I see sensationalist book written by a journalist and and raise you a thoughtful, well-researched one written by a respected academic, Sex at the Margins by Laura Agustín
You just can’t publish a newsletter about them negroes for all your friends to read, right?
Not yet, unless you have cancer or something.
But I like Canada, and apparently have several Dopers ready to smuggle me across the border and get fake gay married (or is that in the UK? I can’t keep 'em all straight!).
I can’t find it any more now, and I’m in a rush. This will have to do for the moment:
Will get back to it later if I remember.
Yes, but here in France usually not for simple possession AFAIK, unless it’s an aggravating charge for another crime. **Clairobscur **might know more about this than I do.
As for weed, well, in my crazy youth I’ve had maybe half a dozen brushes with the police where I was either holding weed, or was intoxicated and in the company of people holding weed. All they ever did was search, seizure, and “piss off, kid”. Never saw the inside of a PD cell, nevermind a courthouse & jail.
I’d say America wins due to lack of (government instated) censorship. Yeah, works can get “death sentenced” by the MPAA or ESRB, but, albeit rarely, in England, Australia (it’s basically W Europe, despite its geographic location), and whatnot the government will occasionally outright ban something. Germany can be especially bad.
But this is partially personal bias, they’re mostly equal. I just personally feel that lack of censorship (time and place restrictions are okay) is the place from where all things derive, if you can’t express your ideas you can’t be free because it limits your thinking and ability to show others your message, no matter how subversive it may be. And yes, I know it’s not like they’re banning things left and right over there, if the US wins it just barely edges out over the competitors.
The 20ish% number is accurate for the overall prison population incarcerated for drug offenses. The number for the federal prisoners is misleading, since federal prisoners make up a very small percentage of the total prison population, and federal prisoners are there for only a certain subset of crimes.
I had a similar amount of run-ins in my youth here in the U.S. with the same results, except that I once received the equivalent of a traffic ticket. I have never had handcuffs on, never have been in the back of a police car, and never saw the inside of a jail.
That pertains to *arrests *and has nothing to do with convicted prisoners. For perspective, the equivalent of a traffic ticket that I referred to above was also technically an arrest, even though it only involved 15 minutes, a ticket, and ultimately a $65 dollar fine.
Ha ok, “country comparisons are useless”. Duly noted…
…except when I dont have any other argument (and mind you I still have to taylor that country comparison shit to fit my views) .
Actually based on stories I’ve read it looks like drunks are a worse problem than robbery. Robbers at least leave you alone after they get your money. Some of the drunks on the weekend will keep putting the boot to you for fun.
Do you have any evidence that per capita Dr. Pepper consumption increased during this period? I don’t recall Dr. Pepper ever being that popular outside the South. The Snapple and Crush products seem to be doing well recently.
BTW, I’m, I quite aware of the Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy, but in the social sciences it is almost impossible to prove causality directly.
Apparently you missed the part in your own link pointing out that the UK has a higher average prison population than Europe as a whole.