And I suggest that you refrain from posting when you’re hysterical and damned near incoherent.
if it’s NOT ‘news to you’ fuckwad, then why did you demland ;proof’ from us? hey? either you knew about the other allegations or you didn’t.
you suscribe to the ‘few bad apples’, ? that’s so nice. what are the pdds that all members of a specific detail were all “bad apples” if there was only a few? you’ve got thousands of soldires over there, only 6 yave been indicted. what are the odd, Dave.
gobear - where the FUCK have I said the soldiers involved don’t deserve a trial? where the FUCK have I said “Bush” was personally resposible? did you not see dave fucking demand a cite that there was ‘abuse’ other than the bein’ nekkid in front of women folk? Did you not see dave now claim that he knew about the ‘other stuff’ yet still require a cite that there was
evidence of physical rape, etc? he was backed into a corner? fuck that. He, along with with othe apologists in this thread were denying that there was anything more significant than a man being forced to wear panties on his head.
AmericaN soldiers photographed prisoners being physically abused, raped etc. It was wrong. pretending ‘it wasn’t so bad’ is not the way to deal with it.
the voice of reason who demanded a cite for "not all Arabs hate Americans’ (or somethig to that effect) is cautioning me about posting while hysterical.
it would be ironic if it weren’t pathetic.
Thank you for completely mischaracterizing what I said. I said that I wanted proof of:“rape, sodomy, sexual abuse, and murder” I admitted that we have proof of emotional torture. WRT the rest, all I’ve seen is rumors that there are tapes of Americans raping Iraqi woman, tapes of child porn, pictures of sodomy, etc…coupled with the dire warnings “there’s worse coming”. The “worse” may very well be the proof of these other charges. What I am unwilling to let go is the flat statement of rumor and inuendo as fact. When it becomes a fact, that is, the proof surfaces, I said that I would lead the charge to have the guilty parties convicetd and imprisoned for life. That’s is hardly saying “wait until the trial”. Stop twisting what I say to reflect your predjudices.
So, when we invaded Iraq we didn’t need “proof” after trial, but here where there are pictures that folks who really don’t want to admit shit, have to admit shit, we need to wait until there’s been an actual trial, and appeals and all before we admit that something was fucking wrong.
good to know.
I find it difficult to put, side-to-side, Iraq’s torture techniques versus the U.S. Army’s. The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. Beheadings, bodies dragged through the streets…those of us with small children can’t even turn on the damn news, can we?
There’s really no call for arguing about this subject, IMHO. The violence will either stop in Iraq, or it won’t. We’ve laid our bed, and now we have to sleep on it.
Just so you know what kind of entrenched ignorance you’re banging your head against, wring, allow me to quote our deconstructionist friend from April 12, 2003:
This, in response to the argument that post-war “revelations” of Saddam’s penchant for torture did not justify the war.
After seeing the video all I could think about was the intense grief his father must have felt as he was being held tightly by Nick’s brother on the family’s front lawn in front of all those cameras.
There was the little boy he had cradled gently in his arms, helped with his first steps, threw the ball around with and proudly watched graduate. What right did those monsters have to take the innocent life of a non-combatant, someone trying to improve the life of others in a war-torn country? Why was he targeted for death? Will we ever really know.
May he rest in peace.
Do not discuss the curtain. There will either be a man behind the curtain, or ther won’t. All must accept the curtain, for it is there.
You don’t seem to be posting in English anymore, but from what I can gather, you are still trying to insist that I am somehow claiming that in someway the atrocities committed by our soldiers were not wrong. This is a blatent misrepresentation of what I’ve said time and time again, and as such I believe it is in violation of board policies. Post a link to a post I made saying that the prison abuses weren’t wrong, or retract.
hell I predicted in this same thread that when presented with proof[ of charges of rape and murder he’d find a way of ignoring it. And here he is, “yea I knew” if he knew, why did he question when some one else said it?
Excellent point Tentacle. This is the reason we can’t leave Iraq. Not because it would hurt our ‘ego,’ not because it would raise our oil prices, but because we’ve done this sort of thing before and we know how it turns out. Unfortunately, doing the right thing in this case involves a lot of loss of human life, and a hard road ahead.
Since the beginning I thought that SH needed to be removed from power, but it’s a shame that it happened the way it did (and for the record i disagree with most of the decisions made by the current administration about the war, and many of their general policies). These horrific acts being committed by both sides should be condemned, and aren’t going to make it any easier to stay in the area. But if we pull out now, the horrific acts aren’t going to go away. It’s a lose-lose situation any way you look at it. There are no winners in this type of war.
I’ve seen it. Video quality from Ogrish.com wasn’t of the quality of another beheading (Russian) that I’ve seen though. Honsestly, I think that the beating deaths by US and British forces captured fully on video would be worse as would the burn victim from being transported face down on the hood of a vehicle
Again, that’s your opinion. There are more than enough reasons to justify the war, and none of them involve WMD. What gets me about you brain dead liberal drones is that you can’t even conceive of the posibility that someone can believe that the war was justified, and still think that the aftermath of the war has been handled poorly. It’s just a big ole black and white world to you, isn’t it? Sad when ideology blinds one to common sense.
What’s pathetic is that you have your head firmly up your ass if you think that after all that’s happened they don’t hate us. Jesus, they’d have to be superhuman not to.
FTR, I don’t subscribe to the “few bad apples” theory–I hold Bush and Rummy ultimately responsible–but I also think that just locking the soldiers up without a trial is also wrong.
So we should follow one egregious eror by committting another equally egregious error?
Good to know.
Abu Ghraib was a stain on American honor that has done incalculable harm to our welfare of decades to come.
And I suggest you watch the video of Nick Berg’s head being hacked off to the repeated mantra, “Allahu akbar.” God is great, indeed.
i fyou have a claim against me as a poster, make the case to the mods;
you fuckwad, demanded proof of allegations of rape and murder. It’s been submitted. you then dismissed it as 'yea, I knew".
then, fuckwad, why did you demand proof? “prove or retract”. if you know, you don’t post that sort of shit. unless, of course, you’re an absolute fuck.
POST YOUR FUCKING PROOF.
I want a link to a video, or a photo, or a fucking DAGUERREOTYPE for God’s sake. I know all about the allegations, you moron, show me something, anything other than hearsay and speculation. It’s been 2 whole pages since I first asked, and I’ve seen nothing.
Hold up, Dave. Getting rid of Saddam was unquestionably a good thing, but you have to remember that Bush and Co blatantly lied about the casus belli, to wit the WMDs. They forged evidence, they lied about their intentions when they said they would give Saddam a chance to comply with the UN, they deliberately hamstrung our troops with lack of supplies and men, and they have royally botched this entire operation.
You can’t justify the war that was started by deliberate deception.
[QUOTE=gobear]
What’s pathetic is that you have your head firmly up your ass if you think that after all that’s happened they don’t hate us. Jesus, they’d have to be superhuman not to.
[quote]
Can you prove that absolutely every single person of Arab heritage would agree with the statement “I hate Americans”? that’s what you claimed, when you demanded a cite to the contrary. Have you ever learned about absolute statements/ Yes, many over there have reason to hate us. Show me where I claimed otherwise.
good, try to help your friend Dave to understand the concept. And while you’re at it, show me where I claimed anyone has ever dserved being 'locked up w/o a trial" (ever? even outside of this thread?)
again, where have I done this? I don’t think we need to wait until the end result of lenghty tirals to admit that bad shit went on is all. apparently dave and you do
absolutely.
Never suggested that it was ever other than represhensible. But of course, it’s a lot easier to fight those straw men then what folks actually say, isn’t it. So, when I said it was a reprehenisible act, I was really saying “god is great”… you fuck. talk about putting words into some one’s mouth.
I posted links to news sources where the folks you’re defending admit that there’s evidence. It hasn’t been released to the public.
if you’re claiming it didn’t happen, there’s no evidence, you’re wrong about there’s no evidence, other folks who have actually seen video tapes, and admit it, have said ‘yea, there’s evidence’. if you insist we cannot admit that bad shit was done before there’s an actual trial, then I will gladly look back on your posting history and see if you’ve been consistent on that point, that we can never admit that anything has ever happened until there is a trial with a verdict. I doubt that you’ll like the results.
I posted about it on page one. I posted links on page two. Again, the Pentegon has not released the other photos, tapes. Rumsfeld has admitted that they exist. do you really want to claim that Rumsfeld is lying?