Well, not yet, anyways.
But this is a serious worry, and why we care about the US not letting itself completely fall apart. If even 1% of the US population head north as refugees, that would be about 3 million people, which is close to 10% of our whole population.
And it’s a safe bet a lot of them would bring their guns, if they have them.
There’s just no way we could handle that.
If I found a practical way and could drag friends and family with me I would emigrate now. I feel nearly hopeless about the future of the US, and we are already a bad enough society I regret that I’ve contributed to our economy my whole life. If we were a company I would already have resigned.
I’m 4 months from 65 and have 25 years of income saved. I know other countries don’t want us coming and occupying jobs and getting benefits that their citizens would otherwise have had, but hope the picture is better for people wanting to retire who have funds. Not really sure how high the barrier is to start getting medical benefits.
But a dear friend is Turkish and has family in Turkey, though now he’s an American citizen and not a Turkish citizen. He tries to plan his major medical care, such as elective surgeries, to happen in Turkey. He says medical care there is every bit as good as in the US, and much more accessible. Elective surgery? We can do you tomorrow afternoon. Need a cardiology consult before you’re cleared? You can get an appointment in an hour or two. He has no medical benefits in Turkey, but the out of pocket cost is less than it is here in the US with good health insurance. This isn’t to praise Turkey as an option overall, as I believe the government there is even worse than here – the point is that medical care here in the US isn’t in such great shape that it’s reason to stay.
Ms. Napier won’t leave without the grown children, and one of them is a trumpist and certainly wouldn’t leave to go to a very non-trumpist country… And I have friends I love whom I wouldn’t want to leave. So, there are several practical reasons why it’d be too difficult as things are today.
I’d like Canada, New Zealand, Australia, UK, or if none of these then a western European country with fair English compatibility whose language I would start learning. I used to spend weeks in Bavaria and think that would have been OK, for instance – I got by fine in most businesses without any German, and once had a splendid visit with an older couple who was trying to push their non-running car up a slight slope into their garage when I walked by and helped them. They invited me in for coffee and I was explaining what I was doing in Germany, even though we had no language in common. We were sort of playing charades to do it. And then there was the time I went to a neighborhood party there, and most of the people spoke English too but one couple did not. We told a story about trying to find the Deutches Museum and wandering around all day until we found it, but they were closing in 15 minutes. The non English speaking couple asked our host’s daughter what we had said, and she recounted our brief story in German, and I understood it! An amazing experience! So, not hard to imagine it working.
I’m white and male, so much of what’s going on in the US is supposed to benefit me to the exclusion of others. But I hate it! And I’m an atheist and have heard some scary speculation from Republicans about the Constitution only stating that the government can’t establish a state religion, not that it can’t require citizens to have some religion.
Honestly? If I could emigrate to Canada tomorrow, I would be on my way.
I’ve actually considered moving out of the US, but not for political reasons, more like just wanting to live in another country when I retire. I’ve looked into several central and south American countries since I already speak Spanish, as well as Canada and I speak Canadian as well as have friends there. My wife talked about maybe moving to Italy for a few years, though we wouldn’t emigrate there, and we’ve discussed some other places as well. At one point I was seriously considering moving to Taiwan as my son’s partner’s family who hasn’t moved to the US are there, and I really love it there.
So, there are a few scenarios I could see myself moving to another country…but not because of the chaotic and silly ‘insurrection’ or even general politics…it would be because it’s something I want to do myself.
Would it be possible to telecommute from another country to a job in the States? I think there are time limits you can remain in another country without permission, but isn’t that 6 mo to a year? I am not sure. Anyway, if you had to move to a different location every 6 mos to a year, while still working and pulling-down a US salary, that would not be so horrible. Granted you’d never grow roots anywhere, but perhaps one could ride-out the Republican republic and then return later?
I made my choice in 1968 when flunking a student could send him to Viet Nam. I don’t regret it but all three of my children now live in the US and I would like to live near at least one of them. While they are all dual US/Canadian citizens, as are their children, their spouses are not. But I guess they could get residence permits easily if it came to that.
Medical care is a mixed bag and is actually one reason we might consider moving back. Quebec has spent decades limiting the number of medical doctors and nurses, especially in the Montreal area and, as a result when our family doctor retired last April, there is no replacement. We are on a list that estimated would take a year and a half and then we would be assigned a doctor even if we disliked them. So I would not really recommend moving to Quebec if you are worried about medical care. Of course, we could move to a more welcoming province, but dammit, we are well settled here.
A right wing coup.
I have friends in Toronto, and I’d move there if the Canadian government would let me. But they sensibly want young adults to fill their workforce, not old people to stress their health system.
I lived in Montreal many years ago, and loved it, so I’d move back there in a heartbeat if I could. Doesn’t even have anything to do without politics. But in my current circumstances, I don’t think I can.
I lived most of my adult life outside the US already, but I had always intended to come back to the US for retirement/old age. Now that I’m here, I won’t leave again, because I’m pretty old, Hawai’i is warm and lovely, and I understand the difficulties of emigrating.
However, if I were young and yet somehow knew everything I have learned over the years about establishing a life outside one’s home country, I would definitely seriously think about it. The US is going to hell and I am not optimistic that things will improve.
The hard part is figuring out where. As some people have acknowledged upthread, emigrating is not that easy. There are legal and practical barriers that make it more difficult than some who fantasize would imagine. I would need to find a country with socialized/affordable medicine, warmth, a first-world standard of living, and the ability to communicate in English. Probably Singapore, if they’d have me. I couldn’t handle Canada because it’s way too cold for me, unfortunately.
ETA: A number of posters upthread have mentioned Panama. My cousin lives part-time there and loves it, FWIW. But also FWIW, he is filthy rich (married an heiress decades ago and has lived a life of leisure ever since) so I’m not sure his satisfaction with living there is a useful data point.
This is approximately my situation. I looked into emigrating when I retired in 2012, and I quickly learned that the fantasy of breezing into another country and living like a king on a limited income is exactly that—a fantasy.
That’s my list, except that I’d add “a stable, non-authoritarian government.” Finding a country that checks all those boxes and welcomes retirees is very tough.
An immigrant visa; preferably Canada, Australia, or the EU.
I very casually looked into Ireland a while back. It checks a lot of the boxes for ease of living for a US-ian (stable politics, English spoken, first world standards). It really helps if you have Irish ancestry, we don’t (ancestry is probably a factor in emigrating to a lot of countries). Otherwise, having sufficient money to not be a burden on the state was also a factor (which is probably a factor in emigrating to a lot of countries). I don’t recall specifically how they feel about retirees. But, it’s not cheap or a tropical climate, yah?
This. I wouldn’t leave because of politics, but I’d leave because there’s a lot of awesome countries out there with more and different culture, better safety nets, lower cost of living and less frankly crazy people. I’d love to live in e.g. Thailand.
Prop 65 requires that ubiquitous warning on just about everything that it may be cancer-causing. Supermarkets don’t even try to put the warning on every product. They just post a generic sign at the store entrance saying: “Prop 65 warning: Just about everything in this store may be carcinogenic. For more information, see [web site or QR code]”.
My parents and brother are still in the US, and they’re the primary ball & chain that keeps me here. Wish nothing but the best for them but if, say, they were done in by a freak accident, then after the funeral my wife and I will immediately look into emigration procedures for other countries. Otherwise, I’d just tough it out here and leave no progeny to suffer through the modern version of the Fall of Rome.
Already have semi-formulated plans to do so. Once the current legal kerfluffel with the ex is done (fingers crossed og please be merciful and let it be soon) will be fully developing and working to implement said plans
Not a day goes by that I don’t consider it. I look back to all of the Jews and/or others who got the hell out of Europe before the Nazis took over, and I admire their foresight and wish it upon myself, and mourn the ones who didn’t see it until it was too late. I could do OK in Latin America; I have the foundations of Spanish and I’m good with learning languages, and within a year or two I could functionally speak it. I WFH so a job isn’t an issue. The main problem is Mrs. Homie, who does not want to leave, nor am I interested in leaving my aged mother behind, and there’s no taking her south of the Rio Grande.
I lived overseas for twelve years and can tell you that things aren’t all rosy on the other side of the pond. There was a time when I would have emigrated, but not in today’s world and not at my age. Other countries are just as xenophobic as America is, so unless you emigrate to one where there is a large American population, you’re going to be very lonely. I have a friend who is right now in the process of moving permanently to Portugal. His advance shipment is on the way and they are just waiting for the visa to clear. But they are familiar with the country, having lived there while in the Foreign Service (where I met them), speak the language, and are going to live where there is a large number of ex-pats.
If the USA devolves into a police state or some such it will certainly have global repercussions and any one thinking they can flee and resume their best American lifestyle is bonkers.
Hell no I ain’t gonna leave I’ll fight tooth and nail and burn down my house first before walking away and letting scum take it over.
Run? Ready set run for the hills and see who welcomes you, JFC!