Many folks, myself included, are alternately outraged and appalled by the actions of trump and his cohorts. And “threatening” to leave the country if so-and-so gets elected is old hat. But when does it stop being talk. What is your personal “tipping point”? What action or series of actions would convince you, personally, that it’s time to “get out of Dodge”? You can go where you wish. If you’re from another country, you can go back there. For most native-born Americans Canada is the logical choice, because of proximity and so much shared culture. I have my answer for what it would take for me to give up on the good old U.S.A., but I’ll wait for a few responses from others.
You might want to check out this thread, where we’ve been thinking along the same lines:
OK, then. Mods, please close this thread and I’ll take my business over there.
I’m not sure what would make me leave all my family here. If I didn’t have any family here, I’d move to England now, assuming counterfactually that it would be easy to do, even though I’d miss New York State, but that is more for the health care and transportation than politics. I wouldn’t choose Canada as my first choice because I think I’d perpetually be in an uncanny valley with part of me assuming I’m in the USA but the other part telling me something is just a little off, whereas in England I’d be able to make a more clean break.
Don’t let a vocal minority tear you to pieces. There are vast swaths of people who regularly do not vote because they see no difference (I’m not one of them). The more the administration does things that nonvoters don’t approve of, the more likely those people will be motivated to do something about it at the polling place.
They’re certainly vocal, but if they were a minority in the way that truly matters electorally then Trump wouldn’t have won or even come close.
Have you explored immigration laws for Canada? Would it be as easy as you think to move there permanently?
It’s pretty hard to leave. I did so in 2002 and moved to the Republic of Georgia. Later I ended up living mostly in the UAE and Czech Republic where I have a home now. Almost nobody leaves despite what they say,
For me, the bell-weather would be the removal of civil rights from groups - a reversal on the path to freedoms for everyone, to revert to when America was “great” (for white Christian males). It wouldn’t have to be my minority group impacted - once the trend starts, I wouldn’t expect it to stop before they got to us. But I would have to see a trend establishing, as you can’t plot a curve from one point. Just reversion Roe v. Wade wouldn’t do it, but that would have me pricking my ears to the next shoe dropping.
Leave? Never.
I will persist, I will resist, I will fight.
My freedom, comfort or life is not worth abandoning my country to fascists.
I left a decade ago and am not disappointed with my decision in the slightest. Your country is wack as fuck, man.
Almost nobody can leave, in practical terms. Americans who have an “in” due to an accident of birth like dual citizenship, or who have made themselves internationally in demand are very much the exception.
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Exceptions are made when your finances are “in order”.
Why should I leave? They are the assholes, maybe they should find another place.
This. The only realistic options that most Americans have for leaving are not the countries most Americans immediately think of and want to get into.
It’s actually pretty hard to get into a western European country or Canada, i.e. you need to be highly skilled, young, and well educated, or rich.
But the plus side of this, is that non-western European countries are friendly and affordable, and a lot of them have significant expat populations. You just need to bring your own job along with you to really make a go of it.
You know how we have border guards that prevent random people from just moving to the United States and getting jobs and living here?
Other countries have the same thing.
It’s kind of amazing how Americans are very familiar with the idea that foreigners are not allowed to come here and take our jobs, but are shocked to find that they’re not allowed to move to another country and take those guys’ jobs.
You’d have to be pretty naive to really believe that, and in these “where would you emigrate to” type discussions I always take it for granted that we’re deliberately ignoring that fact because, otherwise, there’s really not much point to it.
It’s interesting to note how fifty years ago, at the height of the Cold War, people tended to be more aware of and concerned about countries that didn’t allow their people to leave; now with the international refugee crisis it’s all about what countries will let you in.
Actually, I’m amazed at the number of Americans I have met personally who don’t understand the concept of borders and visas.
They actually think that if they wanted to, they could move to Toronto just like they could move to Chicago.
After all, back during the Vietnam War, didn’t lots of guys avoid the draft by moving to Canada? It should be easy-peasy.
Remember a couple elections ago, when Michael Moore made a movie called Fahrenheit 911?
Lots of people on the internet (even here at the Sdope) were talking about moving to Canada if the dreaded and unthinkable should happen (Bush getting elected).
It was mostly hot air, of course…but while spewing all that hot air, very few people actually realized that their idea was impossible.
There was a Cracked article about this attitude a few years ago, in which the author commented that many Americans criticize fellow Americans for having an American-centric attitude yet display the same attitude by assuming that other nations will welcome them with open arms should they emigrate there, just because they’re American.
I’m well aware that it is difficult to emigrate to nearly every place you’d want to emigrate to, (and probably lots of places you wouldn’t want to as well). That’s why I don’t support relaxation of our immigration policy, because it’s already one of the easiest countries to get into for economic purposes. I wouldn’t mind entering a Schengen-style free travel and work area with other developed nations, but they wouldn’t allow the USA to join due to health care migration.