American Idol 2 - The Finale. 205 or Broadway? [Spoilers after show airs EDT]

Cafe Society
81

Then he’s in the wrong profession, Sauron. It’s really not intended as an insult, but merely a statement of fact. When someone clearly doesn’t hear a singer consistently singing OFF KEY and having to wind his way through half a dozen notes in a longass run before he finds the one he wants, the listener must be tone deaf. I can think of no other explanation that makes sense.

Now, if the listener wants to discuss style preference, well, that’s a whole other ball o’ wax, as they say. Some people found Clay’s “glory notes”, his head tilt and winking painful to watch. That’s certainly their prerogative. I, on the other hand, found Ruben’s begging for me not to take his baby away, his profuse sweating and face wiping, his standing in one place and his incessant OOoo[sub]oo[/sub]OO[sup]ooOO[/sup]oo[sub]OO[/sub]oohs repeated ad infinitum in every damn song he sang (whether “ooooohs” were part of the lyrics or not) annoying as all hell.

Ruben started this competition out strong. His rendition of A Whole New World was amazing, vocally. Pretty much from there on out he got progressively worse and worse and worse. He forgot words, he whined and he sang off key and pitchy.

Clay, on the other hand, started out amazing, even as early as the wildcard show where the usually-snarly Simon said, “Wow. WOW! I was really impressed. That was a fantastic performance – really, really fantastic. <snip> It was great. Really, REALLY great.” And then, unlike the ever-deteriorating Ruben, Clay just kept getting better and better and better.

Clay was actually given criticism, took it to heart, learned from it and worked at his craft.

Ruben was given constant toungue-baths even when he sang like shit.

THAT’s how this thing got stolen from Clay – not with the final vote tally.

The judges told the American public that Ruben was a great singer and apparently a large portion of the American public bought it, hook, line and sinker.

Oh well. Clay’s CDs will still outsell Ruben’s. He’ll have an amazing and long-lasting career (if he chooses to – he may decide to give up the limelight and go back to working with developmentally challenged kids). Ruben, on the other hand, I’m not so sure his appeal will last much past the initial AI/19Entertainment push. I just don’t think he has it in him. It’d be great if I could be proven wrong on that and he could actually learn something and get better. Time will tell.

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Someone’s a regular visitor to the television without pity site. :smiley:

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Ryan’s had trouble reading the TelePrompter before - I’m sure that’s all that was about. Nobody was “cheated” in any meaningful way.

The point still is that Ruben, Clay, and Kim won over about the same large number of fans, and that Fox will still give each of those “human investments” about equal career support.

Why not? The music companies invest a lot of money into their talent, and any businessperson likes some assurance that they’ll get a return.

As for the judges, I thought Randy lately seemed to be pro-Ruben, Simon was pro-Clay, and Paula was too wasted to care. Bring back Simon for AI3, of course, but the others are wearing pretty thin by now.

84

Didn’t I already say “thanks for playing?” You’ll find your booby prize over to left, in the Clay Aiken wing.

Oh, and you’re still wrong.

85

Sorry, that response was to Shayna.

And while I’m at it, why do the artists themselves show poise and class, as Clay did, and their supporters declare sour grapes?

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FWIW, Shayna, Clay seemed to lay on at least as many cheap stylistic Broadway flourishes as Ruben did blues ones, probably even more so. They both were clearly much better at the end than the beginning, too - but that’s still not the big picture. This wasn’t a contest about achieving technical precision or virtuosity, it was about finding/creating a star. Fans don’t buy virtuoso recordings as much as they buy what they like, on a simple emotional level. Clay has some star quality to him, but Ruben just has more. He gives off more of an air of likeability, someone you’d like to not only hear sing but hang out with. Beyond his voice, it may be only that smile and those dimples and that huggability, sure, but that’s as deep as most fans’ connections with entertainers get anyway, isn’t it?

87

WTF? When has Simon ever been pro-Clay. Didn’t you read the Newsweek article with Simon talking up Ruben and wanting Ruben to be in the Top 2? Were you not listening when he criticized Clay for being too broadway, ugly, and basically having meh performances all the while praising Ruben for every little ooh he sang instead of singing the bloody words? Simon is not and has not been on the Clay train. He’s been way too damn busy engineering Ruben’s advancement to care about Clay and Kimberly.

You’re welcome to call this the way you see it, but you’ll never convince me that Simon was every pro-Clay. From what I’ve seen from his interviews off the show and his remarks on the show, he’s always been pro-Ruben.

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Grace, he’s EASILY been pro-Clay. Yes, he’s been more pro-Ruben, but if you ain’t pro-someone you don’t say things like ‘You should win the competition’, which Simon said to Clay in week 4 or 5. You don’t say ‘That song could win you the competition’ as Simon said to Clay on Tuesday night.

I don’t see how you cannot say Simon was pro-Clay. He gave him critiques when Clay needed it. I’m 100% positive that he wanted Ruben vs. Clay in the final, and he engineered it perfectly.

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When he made that comment about Clay “possibly” winning the competition with “Bridge Over Troubled Water”. That came at just the right time, didn’t it? A lot more people heard that than read Newsweek. But it’s just a feeling.

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And one other comment from me before I board the train back to Snarkville. Well actually, a comment from none other than James Lileks:

You said it, James.

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No. It’s a statement of your opinion. Clay lost. Get over it.

I have my doubts, but since neither of us really knows, it’s kinda asinine and pointless to make such an assertion, don’t you think?

I’m starting to think you must be related to Clay.

ElvisL1ves, I think the unnamed network exec is doing whatever he can to cause problems for American Idol. It stomped the competition in ratings last night, and he’s just trying to sabotage it before AI3 slags his network (whichever one it is) next season.

I’ve got no problem with music industry execs and critics favoring consistency over perceived improvement. Some want to point to Clay’s improvement during the contest (as he definitely did) as justification for him winning. My point is that the music industry (or at least the folks providing the recording contract to the winner) would probably prefer someone who was already singing at the top of his/her game over someone who improved.

92

I’ve preferred Ruben over Clay from the get go. I like his voice better than Clay’s, period. I can admit that Ruben stumbled plenty of times – more than Clay, even – but I flat-out like his voice better. I’d rather listen to Ruben than Clay; Clay’s voice grates on my nerves after a couple of songs. When I did vote, that’s why I voted for Ruben. In fact, I would have preferred a Kim Locke/Ruben finale.

Clay’s supporters can be as strident and shrill as they want and whine about conspiracies, but that doesn’t make my personal opinion wrong.

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Thank you, thank you, thank you! I’m not the only one who noticed that. It’s a shoddy way to try to disguise the flat note, since the run is usually worse than the bad note. Clay doesn’t have to do runs. His voice is perfectly controlled.

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Our tastes may differ. I assure you I am not tone deaf; I have an exceptional ear for music, I’m a talented singer, and I know my way around a stage. No superstar, but I know what I’m talking about and I know one note from another. I like Ruben’s voice and I like his style. The man can sing and he’s got personality.

If you think Clay should have won that’s great - hell, almost half the viewing public agrees with you, and there’s no doubt the man’s exceptionally talented (unlike, say, Sideshow Justin Guarini) - and I’ll freely admit the difference between the two was almost too close for me to call. But it’s stupid of you to think everyone with a different opinion is tone deaf. Get over yourself.

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Try to take this question at face value (although I am an admitted Clay voter)–why is “Broadway” such a pejorative description of Clay’s voice? Doesn’t it take as much talent to sing on a Broadway stage as it does in a concert?

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jsc: Because in Broadway, you are encouraged to, basically, oversing notes. In a ‘POP’ competition that can be grating.

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Actually, jsc1953, it probably takes more talent to sing on Broadway than it does in a pop concert. My personal opinion, of course.

It’s just that, for the most part, the singing styles are different. A Broadway style requires careful enunciation and the ability to hold notes for roughly eight minutes at a stretch. What works on Broadway is usually not what works in pop music, and vice versa.

There have been some crossover hits (such as “One Night in Bangkok”, which, arguably, wasn’t Broadway style to begin with), but for the most part the two styles aren’t compatible.

Not to say that Clay can’t sing. That boy has more talent in his spiky hair than I have in my whole body.

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I’m happy Ruben won. I’m sure both of them will do well in whatever part of the music industry they find themselves in. I would say in 10 years from now Clay and Ruben will still be successful and Kelly Clarkson and Justin will not. Just my opinion. I do wonder now that Ruben has won, what will become of his band back home?

On a side note I heard Simon on Fox 11 news this morning say that Clay knew before he went on stage that Ruben won because Ryan Seacrest accidentially showed him the card or something like that.

Clay also mentioned they would like to make a movie together after the tour is over and Clay said, comparing it to Justin and Kelly’s movie, “It would actually be funny”. I bet it will be if they get the chance to do it.

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Sheesh, why on earth would they let Ryan Seacrest anywhere near the results, anytime before they’re actually revealed? Dimwits.

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By the way, just who is this Ryan Seacrest kid anyway? Where the heck did he come from?