An Agnostic on a Mission Trip

Great Debates
1

Not sure if a GQ or a GD or an IMHO. Mods, feel free to move it. I won’t be upset. I won’t cry. At least I don’t think I will.

Next Sunday, June 10th, I will be leaving on a two week trip to Russia. My primary destination will be Tomsk, Siberia. A doctor who is going out there (let’s call her Dr. Smith) got my name as a medical student who would be able to set up a small computer network at a medical school out there. Since the trip was paid for by the Department of Medicine, I happily agreed. I will also be helping out in the clinic and presenting a talk on post-genomic medicine (since I am pursuing a PhD in Genetics as well).

It was mentioned in passing that it was a Methodist mission trip. This would facilitate our passage into the country by arranging our visas and “greasing the wheels” to allow the passage of our donated medical supplies. They also donated money for the computer lab to be set up at the medical school. I mentioned that I was agnostic who was raised Jewish, but didn’t mind a bit of prayer just as long as I was not forced to participate. Dr. Smith sympathized and said that she felt similarly. She added that we would only be traveling with the mission (they are going to an orphanage outside of Tomsk), and that they were a fairly tolerant bunch.

Yesterday, I was unable to go to the pre-trip meeting due to a prior conflict. I picked up a packet of paperwork from Dr. Smith today, which included the requisite medical forms, itineraries, and emergency contacts. Two things were quite worrying to widdle agnostic me, though.

First, it looks like a sizable portion of the trip is going to be spent in close association with the missionaries. Travel is around a week of the 16 day trip. There are breakfast and dinner prayer sessions. I am scheduled to lead one.

Second, there is a “Mission Policy Agreement” for me to sign. This includes such lines as “Share the love of Jesus Christ in ways that make a Christian difference” and “Lift up Jesus Christ with my thoughts, words, and actions.” Along with this are several guidelines for behavior, many of which seem fairly silly to me (“Abstain from alcohol unless offered by hosts”, “No inappropriate clothing” – bikins? Siberia?)

So, I am faced with a number of options. I of course wish to be respectful of the missionaries and the work that they are doing, but I refuse to sign the “Mission Policy Agreement.” I can’t weasel that hard. Am I obligated to follow the behavioral guidelines? Should I abstain from alcohol in Russia (and miss most of the vodka?)

How do I pull off these two weeks without too much weaseling on my personal beliefs and how do I get through this time without causing too much antagonism?

How do I lead a prayer session? Should I make it pseudo-Jewish or should I give a godless affirmation? I could be reasonably comfortable leading a Reform Jewish prayer. My personal preference would be to talk on the universal goodness in every man and universal truths without mentioning God. I would be sure to repeatedly say how much I admire and respect everyone on the trip and what a wonderful experience they have afforded me. I think godless prayer would be a clear sign of antagonism, however.

Would any good nonbeliever here admit that they would weasel and sign the “Mission Policy Statement?” Just to make things easy on themselves?

Is there anyway I can politely prevent joining hands in a prayer session? Will it be a sign of disrespect if I refuse to pray?

I think I can get through the thing if nobody brings up creationism. I will positively snap if there is an evolution denier. I can’t stop myself. Before I know it, I will be arguing protein homology and biblical errancy.

If this thread lasts until next Wednesday or so, maybe I will be able to post real-time experiences back from Siberia. After all, I am going there to set up an Internet-connected computer network…

I have already informed all of my like-minded friends that if I come back speaking about Jesus, to tie me down to a chair and beat the living shit out of me. I will tolerate no other intervention… :slight_smile:

2

edwino wrote:

Since a great number of Russians are Eastern Orthodox, you could always say your prayer in Greek. :wink:

3

Tough question! Here in Korea, I was offered teaching jobs at two universities. Both are private schools, one is Christian and is a little more prestigious than the other. In order to accept that job (at the more prestigious school) I would have had to sign a paper claiming to be a Christian and agreeing to live a Christian lifestyle. The “Christian lifestyle” would have been okay, since I don’t really do anything that Christians don’t do, but claiming to be a Christian bothered me. I’m not a Christian, but I’m also not a liar, usually. Fortunately, the less prestigious school offered a slightly better deal in terms of salary and housing, so I took that one.

Would I have signed the paper, if the deal had been as good? I don’t know. I like to think that I wouldn’t have, because after all, it’s a more or less permanent job, and it would have meant agreeing to keep my real beliefs secret more or less permanently. I wouldn’t have been comfortable with such a sustained lie. But for a two-week trip? I think I’d be able to pull that off.

First, I would talk to Dr. Smith. How does she plan to handle it? If pressed to lead a prayer session, you could quietly say that the only one you’d be comfortable with would be the Reform Jewish prayer, and they might even let you off the hook.

I passed through Siberia a couple of years ago, and there is some wonderful stuff to see there. My guess is that someone will offer you some vodka pretty regularly. Methodists allow that, don’t they? Good luck!

4

Here is what a fellow agnostic would do.

It won’t hurt you bow your head and hold hands during the prayer. I find myself having to do that frequently with a group I am involved with. I don’t say “amen” at the end. I just join hands and listen the them. Sometimes the prayers are quite heartwarming if you actually listen to them.

I couldn’t lead the prayer though. Usually groups like that are pretty understanding if you just say “I am not comfortable leading the prayer.” You don’t have to explain why. If you really want to give a godless affirmation I don’t suppose it would hurt. Just don’t make a big deal out of it being godless and they probably won’t even notice.

As far as the vodka, I bet there will be a couple of others who feel the same way you do about that. Just hook up with them.

My experience working with groups like that is the main focus is the work you are doing.

5

I am an atheist who was raised Jewish. There is not even a small chance that I would sign their paperwork nor would I lead a prayer session. In fact, I would leave the room when any praying was taking place. I have been in an analagous situation so I do, indeed, walk the walk.

If I were you I would tell them exactly how you feel in a very rational and polite way. Explain that they are on notice that you find any sort of witnessing to be highly offensive. If they want your volunteer help and if they have any principles they will comply.

Haj

6

I think Zumba got it in one.

Haj, I disagree completely with your stance. I don’t beleiev it will hurt edwino in the slightest to listen respectfully to the prayers and lessons of others, nor will it damage him in any way to be witnessed to. In fact, he has an opportunity to demonstrate that not all agnostics and atheists are the type who put people “on notice” without provocation.

That said, edwino, I don’t see any way I could in good faith sign the “Mission Policy Agreement.” I have no problems with the behavior codes, but you cannot be expected to celebrate a deity in which you do not believe. To sign would be dishonest, IMO.

I suspect if you explain to them that you are not Christian and cannot sign the form they’ll be cool with it. Perhaps you can offer them a written statement that indicates you’ll be a good boy without promising not to wear your g-string in public?

As for the prayer session, I also suspect that they just assumed you were joining the mission. Again, if you explain to them that you prefer not to, I bet they’ll be fine with it.

But then, ya never know. Most Methodists I know are laid back, but there are exceptions . . .

7

andros, I was saying what I would do in that situation but not trying to imply that that was the solution for everyone. You should consider that the atheists/agnostics among us who were raised in Jewish homes will generally have a much harder time sitting through Christian prayer time than those who were raised in nominally Christian households.

As far as “no provocation” goes, the OP says that they expected him to sign a religious oath and lead a prayer session without giving him the basic courtesy of asking whether or not he was a believer. Maybe they were just making an assumption or else maybe they were just sending out the standard packet that they automatically send to everyone. In any event, the boundries should be set and they should be made clear. This will potentially avoid problems in the field.

Haj

8

They politely invited me to a confirmation ceremony at the 11 AM service at the church on Sunday. I politely declined. Dr. Smith I think will not sign the Mission Policy Agreement, so we will burn together.
Other than that, I have my SMC Barricade ready to go, and the computers are preordered. I think that I will stick with the “nondenominational” i.e. godless convocation for now. If it is clear that Godless will not fly, I will politely decline the offer to lead the ceremony.

There are 12 of us going. Should be entertaining.

9

edwino wrote:

Careful! “Nondenominational” is a Christian code-word for “any brand of protestantism.” When I went to the baccalaureate ceremony for my graduating class at UCLA, which was billed as being “non-denominational”, God and Jesus came up over and over again.

10

I think Tracer is right. “Non-denominational” just means generic mainline Protestant. Which makes little sence to me. Is there any significant difference in doctrine among the various mainline brands of Protestant?

11

Damn. I guess the word nondenominational is off, then. Perhaps Unitarian/Universalist (although I am not qualified to talk about a religion I know next to nothing about)? I don’t want to use “humanist” because that is turning into a creationist buzzword, but that’s really what my little prayer will be. A prayer to inspire humans not to beat each other up.

12

I’m a little confused.

OK, you’re piggybacking on a religious mission in order to get the benefits: “greasing the wheels”, taking advantage of the donated money, and so on. To put it bluntly, you’re lying (by omission). Fine; not a big deal.

They’re a fairly tolerant bunch. Find out the limits of their tolearance, and lie the rest of the way; I mean, why stop now? If the extent to which you are forced to lie passes your internal limits, bow out. No biggie.

I mean, this is not a tremendous moral dilemma. The rules seem clear, and you just need to get the details worked out. As in the famous dinner conversation with the society lady, we already know what you are; now we are just haggling about price. Figure out if it is too high for you to pay.

You aren’t the first to ride the coattails of a religious mission; the CIA does it all the time. Where you draw the line is totally up to you; if it is not where they can accept things, part ways as friends. But don’t pretend you are being completely honest here. If you were, as an agnostic you would never have gone on a religious misison in the first place.

13

It sounds to me as though there’s been a simple mix-up - someone’s been given a list of names of “people on the trip”, assumed they’re all also “people on the mission”, and set up rotas accordingly. Straighten out the misunderstanding politely, and everything should be OK.

There are differences of doctrine between various Protestant denominations, and some of them can get pretty heated (the Rev. Ian “Stop that Godless line dancing!” Paisley comes to mind, and is repressed with a slight shudder, in this context). Most Methodists I’ve known, though, have been perfectly reasonable people. (One branch of my family, in fact, is Methodist; they don’t have any problems with other branches’ beliefs, or lack thereof.)

dlb, I think you’re being a little harsh - there’s nothing in the OP that suggests any sort of deception, either of the missionaries or of the Russian authorities. It’s by no means unusual for a charitable mission to include both secular and religious components; the implication in the OP seems to me that edwino and his colleague are simply being classed as part of the religious group as a matter of administrative convenience.

14

dlb: I think you’re being a little unfair here. Edwino said the Methodist nature of the mission was mentioned in passing - i.e. as if it were no big deal. So obviously there was no warning or expectation that there may be a small problem.

I would assume that this was a standard pooling of resources to vacilitate travel, not some nefarious scheme to defraud a religious group. The fact that the mission is contributing money for the facility he is heading to, indicates that they have common cause. The mission may simply be more well-heeled and is therefore assuming a larger burden of the costs - As good, civic-minded, well-heeled charity groups should do.

If the Methodists had wanted exclusively christian people to donate services to, they should have:
a.) Drawn the needed expertise from within their ranks.
b.) Recruited skilled positions to staff this facility themselves.
c.)Specified explicitly that only those with compatible religious views would be welcome on this trip.

Presumably they did none of these things, hence Edwino’s surprise to have this ( very mild IMHO ) situation thrust upon him. It sounds like the missionary group just made an incorrect assumption. It’s certainly not Edwino’s fault that nobody tried to ascertain his religious views ahead of time. When the mission discovers this little problem they will either respond negatively or positively. If they respond negatively ( and from the description of them as fairly tolerant, I’m guessing they won’t ), they’ll simply have to reevaluate their priorities and procedures in the future.

I really don’t see where ( given the info we have ) that an accusation of dishonesty can be laid at anybody’s feet. If it turns out that there WAS an attempt to decieve the missionaries when they HAD set conditions re: my earlier points, then yes. Otherwise, no. And in neither case do I think that Edwino himself would be at fault, because he obviously wasn’t informed of any such stipulation.

Just MHO :slight_smile: .

  • Tamerlane
15

Or, what Steve Wright said :wink: .

Slow fingers - It’s a curse :stuck_out_tongue: .

  • Tamerlane
16

Well, I guess that’s what “confused” meant.

He called it a mission trip. Sounded to me like he knew. Sounds like the people on the trip assumed he knew. I can’t figure out where the disconnect was.

But I wasn’t there. Like I said, confused. I apologize if I sounded harsh; I can’t (or couldn’t) figure out where the disconnect was (or is). Calling it a mission trip sounds pretty clear, but I didn’t hear the pitch or see the docs.

Again, apologies for sounding harsh.

17

Methodists do not insist on everyone believing in the same things. As an example it is up to the individual as to whether you believe in the virgin birth or not. Of course this is a two edged sword and it would not be a good idea to tell them that only a fool would would believe in it. I am Methodist and except for my belief in God cannot tell you anything I believe in that the posters on this thread would have trouble with believing and I get along fine with the other members of the church. Since edwino does not know much about Christainity I would suggest that he admit this fact. They will be very tolerant unless given a reason not to be and being honest up front will get things off on the right foot.

It will help to know that the Methodist Church was started by John Wesley in England. Actually, it is an outgrowth of the Anglican Church and really evolved into a separate church rather than breaking away. Wesley started the circuit riders in America.

If there was more time I’d suggest that edwino read The Christain Agnostic by Leslie Weatherhead. Rev. Weatherhead wrote many books as the minister of the largest Methodist Church in London. He wrote this one after he retired. It is a good way of learning about Christainity without being preached to in the process.

I personally object to the idea of missionary work. The Russians already have an established Christain Church, so it isn’t like they haven’t been given the chance to see the light. That said, I agree with some of the other posters that edwino should take this opportunity to tag along.

18

UUs won’t mind if you call yourself UU. And since there is almost no dogma, you don’t have to worry too much about not knowing it…but here is the dogma there is:

19

The whole thing sounds like fun! Missionaries are generally a fun and TOLERANT crowd. As far as the prayers go, see if you can bow out if you still don’t want to do it when the time nears. I’m sure somebody would be HAPPY to take an extra shift at it. Don’t worry about kniz’s misgivings about missionary work in general. You are there to help out some people who can really use the help. That’s it. This isn’t the 16th century anymore. You aren’t there to burn unbelievers at the stake. Think that the people you are with are in advertising: the people you are visiting may be perfectly satisfied Pepsi drinkers, but maybe they might like to try Coke. Nobody’s holding a gun to their heads.

One classic bit of advice about Methodists and drinking. Always have two or more of them with you when you drink. If you only have one he’ll drink it all, but if there are two of them to keep each other on the straight and narrow, they’ll leave it all for you. :wink: And that “unless you are offered” proviso is a BIG out for you.

Have fun, keep us posted.

20

I think it would be a good idea to clear any misunderstandings before you go.
It’s possible that the Chief Missionary said “Get me only believers”, but an overworked junior Missionary forgot to mention that.
I teach at a private UK School established by an Archdeacon.
We have a school chaplain who is a decent, fair-minded man. I have discussed my agnostic beliefs with him in a mutually pleasant way.
He is a source of comfort to pupils, especially in times of bereavement.

However a few years ago we had some missionaries visit. They preached hell and damnation, and scared some of our pupils badly. Afterwards I found they were narrow-minded and ignorant. For example they didn’t know when the Gospels were written (“they are all eye-witness accounts”) and claimed that non-believers, no matter how well behaved, would burn in hell forever.