I think the thing is that this is an area where it is really hard for some people to communicate what they want because there is 1) such variation between different families, so people don’t even realize what needs to be communicated and 2) emotional, because people feel torn between what they want other people to do, what they think they should want other people to do, and what they think other people want them to want to do.
In any area where communication is just difficult–sex is another one–both partners need to both do their best to communicate their desires, but also respect the process and do their best to help the other person communicate as well.
Reading this thread is making me very upset. I’m trying to repress it, but it’s not working. My husband is really stressed at work, so I’m trying to give him a break, but I’ve been giving him a break for a long, long time. When I read things like
and
and
(my bold for emphasis) are really hitting me over the head. It is one week till Christmas and I know beyond a doubt that my husband has not done a damn thing, just like my birthday. He will wait till Monday after work, and he will go to the outlet mall. And he will buy random shit.
Two weeks ago I lost an earring. I must have mentioned it five times since then. Will he get me a similar pair of earrings to replace the one I lost? No. He cannot pick up a clue. All the things I show him in magazines, in shop windows, everything I remark on and admire, is just blah blah blah. And then it’s three days to Christmas and suddenly he has no idea what I want! How could this have happened?
He told me last year about a book he was interested in that was out of print. It took me more than a year to find it. I found it in FUCKING MYANMAR. M-Y-A-N-M-A-R.
And I’m not speaking to the specific, but to the general. While there are women who do what your ex did, there are also men who are not nearly so perceptive as you are about hintage. Granted, “the correct amount of hintage” is going to vary from relationship to relationship, but if you are continually blindsided by a disappointed partner, its worthwhile to evaluate the behavior of BOTH individuals - perhaps she thinks she is giving the correct amount of hintage, and you (not you, the general you) are as oblivious as when she was interested in you and flirting with you and it took your friend saying “I think Becky likes you” for you to notice - and as to Christmas gifts, a little more paying attention starting around September - maybe even a suggestion to go window shopping if you are the oblivious type, might be a better approach than assuming you married a passive aggressive bitch.
And like I said in the OP, women who say that mommies do not get presents and then get all upset when they really don’t get anything, and destroy things if they do, and criticize the way they were wrapped prior to that.
Also when I was growing up, whenever she was sick, she would rearrange the living room furniture as a way to illustrate that she didn’t get to take a sick day. This stopped when I came home from school to find the furniture rearranged, and asked her if she was sick.
Interesting thing here is that she wasn’t. She just wanted to change the furniture around - and did so by herself.
Its painful. And its really hurtful because I’m willing to bet he thinks that because it doesn’t matter to him, it doesn’t matter to you - or he doesn’t understand why it does. And you know, maybe it isn’t the most rational thing in the world to expect our partners to care about what we want and be able to do something special for us once or twice a year without step by step instructions. And yet, it hurts when they don’t - because they are saying “making Christmas special for you isn’t important to me.”
I wasn’t sure how to respond to this without 1. quoting a million things and/or 2. appearing to dismiss or make light of something that is genuinely upsetting to you. Which I totally don’t mean to do! When I read your post, I really felt how distressing this to you, and that must especially suck around the holidays when everyone feels like you’re supposed to be having an extra good time.
I also included the bit about Myanmar because I am so totally impressed you got someone a gift from Myanmar.
But, weirdly, I wanted to mention that I read the exact same posts you highlighted, and the parts that you bolded also gave me a little umbrage as well … but the for the complete opposite reason. To me, it reads like “hints” are something that are completely objective, definable, and mean the same thing to every person, and if my marriage doesn’t include the same giving and receiving of hints (it doesn’t), then I must be doing it wrong.
A lot of things described are things that I might say or do, and never, ever, intend it to be a hint for a gift. I might say I like a scarf that someone else is wearing … but I might mean I like it on HER, because I love the color in concept but I really don’t like that color on me.
My take-away is that hints … aren’t really that great for a lot of people for communicating gift desires. They are subjective, they are not universal, and yet some people keep using them even after a lot of evidence that the hint method is not yielding good results.
I have historically been dreadful at picking up on hints, and so my wife’s hints are now along the lines of “This is a nice necklace! Perhaps you could get me it for christmas.”.
Actually, I think it does matter to him, but he truly has convinced himself that he has no chance of thinking of anything, and so he has given up. And he truly is incredibly stressed and overwhelmed this time of year at work, but he is every year. So he needs to START EARLIER instead of being blindsided by Burl Ives on the TV.
I didn’t find the impossible-to-find book in Myanmar by starting a frantic search last week. I have had things custom made for him, and that starts in September or earlier. He doesn’t have to do that. Go to an estate jeweler and buy me a vintage brooch. It ain’t that hard.
I remember once upon a time reading something talking about how people express affection and how some are “gifters” and some do compliments and some treasure stoic action (“I don’t need earrings, I just need you to provide a home and support”), some physical contact, etc. And that whatever your “type” is, you never really appreciate how important another’s type is to them. So you get conflicts like “I tell her three times a day how much I love her and spend time with her every night while she watches her shows but then she flips out when I didn’t get her a good enough birthday gift… WTF, does that other stuff not matter?” or “I spent five months researching this gift for him and he basically said ‘Neat’ and set it aside, oblivious to how much work I put into it”. Even when you “know” what they’re after, you still don’t process it the same way they do.
Nothing to do for it except to make your desires clear, try to meet your partner’s desires and try to appreciate how they do show how much they care even when they’re doing it “wrong”. That’s a two-way street of course.
We also use the words “get me it for Christmas” and then tape a picture or write the word of the thing on a list that stays on the fridge. It’s on the side of the fridge, so hopefully guests won’t realize we are soulless robots who can’t take a hint.
While they are subjective in a general sense, you are talking about communicating with the person you married. Hopefully, by now he knows the difference between “what a great scarf” (on her, it really matches her coloring) and “what a great scarf” (I admire it and it is something that I would wear). Because after several years of intimacy, he has context - he knows that you would never be caught dead in a scarf, so each “nice scarf” comment is the first. Or that looking at the scarf you are complementing, it is right in your wheelhouse in terms of style and it is something you would wear. And, maybe if he can’t pick up the difference, its time for him to step up and clarify “would you like something like that as a gift sometime?” or the less direct “really, I didn’t think you’d wear something like that.”
And, once again, I have no issue if you are fine giving your husband a specific list - or if you don’t exchange gifts at all - or if you buy your own presents and stick them under the tree. But I really do not think its irrational to for a woman to expect her partner in life to know her well enough to be able to buy her something she will like without having to have her hold his hand and pick out her own gift. (And if he wants to call a friend, or a sister, or a personal shopper - its effort on his part).
I once heard Angelina Jolie talk about her travels as a UN Ambassador. She spoke about a society who, instead of saying “Hello” when they met someone, instead say a phrase that translates to “I see you.” And that resonated with her because people pine not just for welcome, but recognition, acknowledgement. I am listening to you. I am not looking through you; I see you.
You know that it’s not the gift giving that is making your heart hurt; it’s the fact that his lack of attention, his busy lifestyle, is making you feel undervalued. You feel like you’re not being seen.
My best advice is when it’s quiet and you have his attention, maybe at night before you go to sleep, talk to him. Tell him how you feel. If he loves you, and I assume he does, he will change. If he slips back into his old ways, as people tend to do, give him a little nudge. But do communicate because if he doesn’t know, he can’t react.
If it’s any consolation, I’m married to a workaholic, too. We have a great marriage, but it’s not without its bumps. In early fall he got even busier, not just at work but with his social obligations, and I finally told him how unhappy it was making me. I told him that I wasn’t content getting his scraps. Well, that really hit home and he’s since made an effort to carve out time for me. We now have a regular Wednesday night date, where we go out to dinner, and he leaves his cell phone at home. Just having that one night with the two of us, and his undivided attention, has made a huge difference.
I asked my wife what she wanted for Christmas. She said that what she really wanted was a bicycle–she would consider it a joint birthday/Christmas present (since she talked about getting one for her birthday, but never followed through in test riding or going to bike shops).
Even I can’t figure out how someone else – anyone else, my husband or my mother or my best friend - would distinguish from “I like that scarf (on HER)” and “I like that scarf (I wish I had one).”
I know it sounds like I’m being argumentative, but on my end, I think this is a fascinating conversation about different communication styles. I wouldn’t go as far as to say it’s irrational for someone to initially expect his or her partner to pick something out without directly asking … but it’s getting into irrational territory when there are repeated signals, over years, that this is not working well and causing stress to both partners and the expectation doesn’t change or adapt.
What would be some good ways for a couple made up of one “I like to work with hints” person and one “I like a list” person? I think the question you suggested, asking “would you like that for a gift?” is an excellent compromise strategy for the “list” person to adopt. What would be ways the “hint” person could move to some middle ground?
Buy her a pair or 2 of padded bike shorts IN HER SIZE (hint: before you leave the house to go shopping, look at the tag of a pair of jeans that she’s worn recently), wrap them up, and put them under the tree.
You’re welcome! Merry Christmas!!
P.S. We really should open up a “What should I get my SO for Xmas” advice thread?
