An Intruder Breaks Into Your Home -- What Are You Gonna Do?

[Odesio]

*Originally posted by DoctorJ *
**Boy, gun control threads just grow like weeds around here, don’t they? With good reason, too–I don’t think there is a definite answer to this one.

**

Now we need to have a thread about homosexual gun owners. That ought to get everyone out of the woodwork.

**
–It remains fact that guns bought for protection are sometimes used to hurt or kill someone other than an intruder or attacker. Gun owners usually respond by saying, “Yes, but unlike them, I know what I’m doing, no one in my house is suicidal or homicidal, and I’m going to put the gun where the kids can’t get it.”

**

The problem with the stats is that it lumps people like me with drug and alcohol abusers, wife beaters, and gang members. I think my risk of shooting someone by accident or on purpose is less then those three groups.

**
For the most part, I don’t doubt that it’s true–especially around here, where the level of gun knowledge makes me want to stay on everyone’s good side. However, shit happens.

**

Yeah, shit does happen. I might be the only gun owner here to admit to having an accidental discharge. Uh, with my firearm that is. I used to have a bad habit of keeping my finger on the trigger and one day the inevitable happened. I also know of one person who put a hole in his hand with his own pistol.

**
–As Glitch pointed out earlier, an intruder will rarely hurt children. Thus, the risk of someone in the house being hurt/killed by an intruder falls mainly on me or my wife.

**

I wouldn’t be willing to gamble on that. While I believe he’s correct I wouldn’t leave my children at the mercy of an intruder. How could I live with myself if I did?

**
However, my kids are as likely or more likely than me to be involved in an accidental shooting if I have a gun.

**

What’s the evidence for that? I wonder if more adults have accidents with firearms then children. I know the number of accidental death by firearm for children is pretty low but I don’t know how many accidents they have.

**
So it seems that, statistically, if I have a gun in my house, my risk of being hurt/killed may go down, but the risk for my kids probably goes up. It’s just a hypothesis, and I don’t think the evidence is there to support or refute it, but it seems reasonable to me.

Dr. J **

I suppose it is possible. I think it is reasonable to assume that just having a firearm increases the risk of a firearm accident. How high that risk really is probably depends on a whole lot of factors.

Marc

[Odesio]

*Originally posted by zwaldd *
**

why do you leave it unchambered?

if storing your gun with a live round in the chamber doesn’t immediately strike you as unnecessarily dangerous, i probably don’t have an explanation that will convince you. but here’s one of many: guns can accidentally fire simply by being dropped.

**

Most modern firearms are designed not to fire when dropped. Even some revolvers have a transfer bar to prevent accidental discharge when dropped.

**
if you want to minimize the chance of accidental discharge and injury, the first thing you want to do is make sure the chamber is empty. this is why at the shooting range, the etiquette is that when you’re not standing at the line ready to shoot, you unload your gun and leave the ejection port open so everyone can see it’s not loaded.

**

But having a gun for defense isn’t the same as being at the range. I kept a Colt .45 Officers Model under my bed with a round chambered. It is a single action semi-automatic and I felt that it was safe to do so. When I carried it concealed I carried it cocked and locked.

**
i really can’t think of a good reason to store a gun at home with a round in the chamber. like i said, if you have time to reach for the gun, you should have time to cock it. if you’re so worried about an intruder that your desire to get the quick jump outweighs any safety measures at all, you should probably just have someone stand guard during the night. **

I store all my firearms unloaded. If I have it for defense then I don’t consider it stored.

Marc

[Freedom]

MGibson Said:

Now we need to have a thread about homosexual gun owners. That ought to get everyone out of the woodwork.

…and since I have never been able to resist a challenge…

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a9bf41e371f.htm

They were the newest members of the Pink Pistols, a nationwide pro-gun group
that encourages so-called “pinks” - people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or
lead otherwise alternative sexual lifestyles - to arm themselves.

The idea, say members, is to discourage potential gay bashers by making it
known that many gays are armed and ready to defend themselves.

[tracer]

MGibson wrote:

*Originally posted by zwaldd *
**if storing your gun with a live round in the chamber doesn’t immediately strike you as unnecessarily dangerous, i probably don’t have an explanation that will convince you. but here’s one of many: guns can accidentally fire simply by being dropped.

**
Most modern firearms are designed not to fire when dropped. Even some revolvers have a transfer bar to prevent accidental discharge when dropped.

Yep. I can drop my S&W model 686 revolver right on the hammer, with a round in the active chamber, and it will not go off.

[DoctorJ]

*Originally posted by ExTank *
**DoctorJ: shame on you!

The problem is that most or all of those other gun owners thought they knew what they were doing, no one in the house was suicidal or homicidal, and the gun was put up where the kids couldn’t get it.

Conclusion unsubstantiated by facts, or are you claiming first-hand knowledge concerning the mind-sets and assumptions of gun owners, legal or otherwise, who have had an incident with a gun in their home? **

Is it really so much of a stretch?

I was referring specifically to those who bought guns for protection from intruders. I would think that most such gun owners at least think they know how to use it (although they may think it’s no difficult than “point at bad guy and pull trigger”). True, they may not put the gun up away from the kids, but I would hope they don’t think their kids will use it on themselves or anyone else.

Dr. J

[zwaldd]

I can drop my S&W model 686 revolver right on the hammer, with a round in the active chamber, and it will not go off.

that’s great. if you can’t think of any other reasons not to store a gun with a round in the chamber, be my guest.

[drachillix]

*Originally posted by zwaldd *

why do you leave it unchambered?

if storing your gun with a live round in the chamber doesn’t immediately strike you as unnecessarily dangerous, i probably don’t have an explanation that will convince you. but here’s one of many: guns can accidentally fire simply by being dropped.

I didnt select this gun by accident

http://www.glock.com/safe_action.htm

this is why at the shooting range, the etiquette is that when you’re not standing at the line ready to shoot, you unload your gun and leave the ejection port open so everyone can see it’s not loaded.

It is? Makes it a pain to snap my holster.

Find an IPSC handgun match, you will see impeccable, methodical, safe procedures for gun handling. Nobody has their actions locked open.

As I recall any violation of the safety rules is instant ejection from the match.

i really can’t think of a good reason to store a gun at home with a round in the chamber. like i said, if you have time to reach for the gun, you should have time to cock it. if you’re so worried about an intruder that your desire to get the quick jump outweighs any safety measures at all, you should probably just have someone stand guard during the night.

Eh, maybe. 2-3 seconds is an eternity in a gunfight. Do I ever plan on finding out for sure, I hope not. On the other hand I am not going to deny myself that 2-3 seconds if I can avoid it. Because of my match experience I know all too well how long it takes me to reload, how long between shots, switching targets, etc.

Do you feel police officers, etc should carry their guns without a round chambered? How is that different from a responsible gun owner doing the same?

[ExTank]

Transfer-Bar safety mechanism or no, I think it’s a good practice not to leave a round in the chamber.

If you live alone, fine and dandy, maybe.

But if there’s any chance of friends or family visiting your home/apt. and bringing kids along, and you keep a gun handy for self defense, then, just for that little extra margin of safety, I think it’s best to leave the chamber empty.

Or just lock up the gun entirely while they are there, which is what I do.

Think Safe, Act Safe, Be Safe!

If you live in the kind of neighborhood where intruders could conceivably break into your home/apt. during the day, while people are present, and thus need to keep your firearm handy at all times, well…my advice is move, if at all possible. If not, keep your gun on your person while others visit, just so you know, without any doubt, that no one else will get their hands on it.

Okay, DoctorJ, I’ll concede that, in accidental discharges (injury or no), most people honestly thought that they had taken the necessary precautions to safeguard their loved ones or their firearm from each other.

Just because overwhelming numbers suggests that most gun owners do that very thing (take the necessary precautions, not just assume that they have).

[drachillix]

*Originally posted by zwaldd *
**if you can’t think of any other reasons not to store a gun with a round in the chamber, be my guest. **

Nope thats you’re job

You gave us an example, it was proven incorrect, ball in your court.

[Cyn]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SexyWriter **

*I can’t believe all you people have firearms within such easy reach of your beds. I had no idea it was so common.
-L **

Believe it…I happily arrived at Drachillix’s one evening and there’s the Glock on the oak headboard. Mind he has no little ones on site–it was inches from his side of the bed pillow. Evidently, there was someone under his north window at 2 or 3 that AM making unwelcome banging noises on the glass. He hadn’t tucked it back in its cupboard yet.
I don’t own a gun and if I heard noises outside my bedroom door and I was home alone, I’d take my cordless and dial 911. D. suggested I climb out my window as quietly as possible. I always sleep with my bedroom door locked after reading all those Patricia Cornwell novels. Some people sleep with their guns within reach and if they are trained in the use of their weapons, this is a good thing for them. I wouldn’t be safe using a gun effectively, but I damn sure know how to use a phone.

[zwaldd]

You gave us an example, it was proven incorrect, ball in your court

one more try: accidents with guns usually start with a round in the chamber. not chambering a round reduces the chance of an accident. i don’t know how better to explain it. but again, if you think the potential for an armed break in exceeds the need to take the simplest of safety precautions with your gun (and i’d have to say that not chambering a round is the absolute simplest), then go ahead and chamber a round. the couple of times i felt the need to keep a gun handy, i felt sufficiently prepared merely having the magazine loaded. the picture in my head the first time when i consciously ejected the chambered round from my shotgun was my cat nosing around the trigger. unlikely? yes. but wouldn’t i have felt stupid if that gun went off accidentally. it just a precaution. no, i did not feel that an intruder would get such a jump on me that i wouldn’t be able to chamber a shell in time. i’m not living in the gaza strip, for christs sake. have some perspective. if i was so obsessed with protecting myself that i felt the need to regularly sleep within arms length of a loaded gun with a bullet in the chamber, i’d move somewhere that i could, at the very least, feel comfortable leaving the chamber empty when i went to bed.

[zwaldd]

I think it’s a good practice not to leave a round in the chamber.

jeez. thank you ex-tank. what scares me more than the possibility of an armed intruder is that there are presumably ‘responsible’ gun owners out there that don’t practice this most basic tenet of firearm safety. and i’m not talking about those that have a legitimate reason to live in constant fear of attack.

[justwannano]

Gun safety in reverse order
Purchase gun
Purchase ammunition
Store gun
Store ammunition
Gather gun and ammunition together
load clip
Load gun
safety on
safety off
chamber round
safety on
Safety off or cock gun
Fire

Astericks are for revolvers

For a rank amateur to find the safety on guns I have handled would take a while I’m not sure a small child could even do it.

For a small child to cock most revolvers I have handled would be difficult or impossible.

[drachillix]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zwaldd *
**

You gave us an example, it was proven incorrect, ball in your court

one more try: accidents with guns usually start with a round in the chamber. not chambering a round reduces the chance of an accident. **

Yes gun accidents require a round to be chambered, we already covered this.
:rolleyes:

No round chambered = no chance of shooting someone

Just like car accidents require at least one car to be moving.

Ok ex tank agrees with you therefore you can avoid coming up with a better answer?

Let me reply with the actual most basic tenet of gun safety.

treat every gun as if it was loaded

I assume this to mean “ready to fire”

along with its corollary

never point a gun at anything you don’t want to completely destroy

[drachillix]

*Originally posted by justwannano *
**Gun safety in reverse order
Purchase gun
Purchase ammunition
Store gun
Store ammunition
Gather gun and ammunition together
load clip
Load gun
safety on
safety off
chamber round
safety on
Safety off or cock gun
Fire

Astericks are for revolvers

**

[nitpick]
load clip for revolvers?

speedloaders?

[justwannano]

Well you can’t cover everything.

There is something else missing crucial to making a handgun a dangerous weapon.

[justwannano]

I’ll never learn to Preview

Astericks are not for revolvers

[ExTank]

Paddin’ the ol’ post-count there, justwannano?

Actually, with modern revolvers, leaving an empty chamber under the hammer isn’t going to make it any safer; you still have to cock it (manually or pulling the trigger) to fire, thus rotating the cylinder and moving a bullet into firing position.

The “leave an empty chamber” thing was to prevent accidental discharge should the weapon be dropped and land on the de-cocked hammer, forcing the firing pin to do it’s thing.

With safety features like “transfer bars” built into just about every modern revolver, to make it “safe” you’d leave a round under the hammer and in the chamber immediately preceding it, leave that one empty.

With semis-, you would have to leave the chamber empty for that extra safety margin, presupposing that you’ll never be in a situation where you need a loaded gun right now, not in a second from now after you’ve chambered a round.

The best safety is a safety-conscious human being.

But using mechanicals as backups doesn’t hurt none either, unless you subscribe to the theory that using mechanicals gets you dependent upon them, and makes you mentally lax.

[Una_Persson]

*Originally posted by zwaldd *
**but again, if you think the potential for an armed break in exceeds the need to take the simplest of safety precautions with your gun (and i’d have to say that not chambering a round is the absolute simplest), then go ahead and chamber a round. … i’m not living in the gaza strip, for christs sake. have some perspective. if i was so obsessed with protecting myself that i felt the need to regularly sleep within arms length of a loaded gun with a bullet in the chamber, i’d move somewhere that i could, at the very least, feel comfortable leaving the chamber empty when i went to bed. **

OK, if you will recall I only asked for your rationale. I personally agree, and think not having a round chambered is a practice that will increase the safety of having the firearm around. However, do not assume I am an unsafe gun owner based solely on the fact I do keep a round chambered in my home defense weapon.

And I am glad that you feel safe at night; many people do not. It really would not matter where I moved, in reference to your suggestion. YMMV and all that.

[justwannano]

Actually Ex Tank I was hoping Zwaldd would reply.

The gun has to be aimed or at least pointed to make it the killing machine that the anti’s fear. More human intervention.The ultimate safety.