You are awakened at night by the sound of someone breaking in thru a window. You confront him with your gun. Do you blow him away, shoot a hole in your roof, hold him for police, tell him to leave, hold him and torture him with your beer drinking buddies,…?
I know there are a lot of variables that could be involved but what is your first thought. assuming this is a possibly armed and menancing intruder where its not a given that you are in complete command of the situation (I mean you are not a 300lb guy/girl with a 12 gauge and the intruder is a 125lb guy with a knife in his pocket).
First instinct would be to shoot the perp in the chest, so long as you don’t introduce all kinds of weird factors not mentioned in your OP.
For instance – for the purposes of answering your OP, you never said I had teenage kids that might be locked out and thus sneaking in the window. So I’m not considering event briefly bothering to identify the perp.
In many states, you don’t have carte blanche to shoot just because someone came in your window. This is a misconception. As far as I know, you still have to have objectively reasonable fear of imminent bodily harm.
And no, that isn’t always read in to the situation.
Good one, Ethilrist. But seriously, I have heard that you should loudly announce “I have a gun, and I’m calling 911”. If the intruder continues towards you, it’s blam, blam in the middle of the mass (chest). If he’s still coming, one blam to the head. Some states won’t even pretend to investigate, others will investigate to justify the shooting (and may submit the findings to a grand jury if warranted) and some other states will arrest you and may charge you with assault or murder (commie bastards!!).
This is not true in Louisiana. On Halloween night, 1992, a Baton Rouge, LA man named Robbie Pears shot a Japanese teenager on Pears’ carport. A Louisiana court ruled that Pears was not guilty of murder – or anything else. This case got national attention at the time, and drew harsh criticism of US gun policies from Japan.
He said in many states not all states and Louisiana is one state and not many. Although Texas seems to have similiar deadly force laws. I could be wrong but I think California has, or used to have, a duty to retreat in your own home if it was possible. States like Texas, Louisiana, and I think Arkansas do not require a person to retreat in his own home.
Yeah, I know Monkeypants wasn’t making an absolute generality. I just wanted to give one specific example of a state where deathly force againt home intruders was legally sanctioned. I didn’t want Monkeypants’ point to be taken a “given” for ALL states by less-discerning Dopers.
Under CA law as I understand it. You do not have to retreat within your own home. If someone comes into your yard you are still in a “public access area” a paperboy or mailman, etc could walk onto your property without “tresspassing”.
If someone forces entry into your home you do not have to retreat and you may defend yourself with lethal force if presented with a percieved threat to yourself or your family. So you don’t get to legally shoot someone for crossing your yard. Then again arging points of law with an angry armed homeowner at 3am wouldn’t be real healthy. He might just drag you inside and claim you attempted a home invasion of some kind.
When I trained for my CCW ticket (Arizona), I was explained thusly to me: person in the home is guilty of 2nd-degree burglary. No Shoot. Tell them to get out. Still No Shoot. They advance on you. Tell them to stop or you’ll shoot. Still No Shoot. They advance. Shoot Once. Repeat as necessary until no more advance.
Captain Amazing,
No this is innocent enough. It was prompted by another thread (that I didnt start) comparing 38 shells to 357s. I got in to it with others about the stopping power verses safety of neighbors. they seem to take protection as the ability to blow away a drug-crazed armed monster. I was arguing for the neighbors sleeping next door.
There was I an article years ago in NRA’s mag about a few cases when lethal force was used and what happens after the shooting stops. its sobering.
The point was that shooting /killing somebody, even if justified, was a terrible thing. Some people seem to think that they need to use the expensive hardware to justify it’s cost. While I have stuff that I never hope I have to use, but when I needed it , it was sure nice to have available.
folks,
this isnt about legality, its morality,rationality,…
What is your first instinct on the above scenario and have you thought about the consequences?
Tangent,
True story from the paper a few years back. We used to pull funny articles and post on the company bulletin board in the break room.
A guy in a rural neighborhood hears his horses making a commotion. so he grabs his gun and goes to investigate. throws open the barn door and finds a man on a stool behind his mare with his pants down holding on the horses tail… He yells at the guy who pulls a gun and shoots at him. He returns fire and hits the guy. calls the police . when the police arrive, the shot guy complains to the police that he was just walking down the street and this guy shot him and drug him over to the barn. the horse didnt say anything. never did hear how it came out.
ok back to business. on your first instinct do you blow a menacing intruder away or not. I guess the question is basicly, do you yell “drop the (gun,knife,bat,…) or I will shoot” or do you shoot first when you determine that he is menacing.
Given the safety considerations (wife & kids in the house, neighbors next door, so the gun has short-range stopping power but no real penetration ability),
It’s the middle of the night,
My wife and kids are in possible danger,
Even with the gun I’m not in complete command of the situation (that’s from the OP), and
Colorado. About 6 years ago. Some MF showed up at the front door with a package. We’re standing at the front door talking and all of a sudden he thrusts the package at me and tries to shove his way in. He’s got a stainless automatic under the package and now it’s pointing at me. A second guy comes from around the garage about 20 feet away running towards the door.
Fck Fuck F*ck! I didn’t ask for this, don’t want it, gotta deal with it. My future wife’s standing behind me and starting to freak. Understandable.
I deflected the gun away from pointing at us with one hand, grabbed the door and put EVERYTHING I had into slamming it hard on his ass. The package got caught in the crush and is the only reason his arm wasn’t shattered. I raked it down, got the door locked and scrambled back to the bedroom to get my gun.
Baretta 40 in hand, one of the scariest things I’ve ever done was reopen that door and run out to get those two bastards. Fortunately for them and me they’d fled in the brief time it took me to get my gun. Yes, I’d have blown their sh*t away. You can’t imagine the anger and resolve you have when someone tries to force their way into YOUR home and take control. Believe me, I’ll fight to the death, their or mine, before I let anybody come in and have their way with my family.
The Investigators later said I’d be within my rights inside the house but the reason I went into this is to say that you need to make up your mind beforehand as to what’s important to you and what you’d do in a situation. I might not have been legally able to shoot them as they fled but as punishment for the act they just committed and to make sure they didn’t come back to get us again or do this to someone else I’d have acted very decisively. Were they to be in the house? No brainer. Blam.
I’m still pissed at them. Our sense of security is gone. If I go out to get the paper I still look both ways at the door and CONSTANTLY keep it locked. It turned out okay but I’d wish this experience on no one.
Justinh: Break into my home, hovel that it is, and I will shoot to kill your ass. In fact, I have been sleeping with a loaded .22 rifle under the bed and a big knife beside it because a local punk accused of killing a woman has been on the lam for several months in my county.
As to the morality & rationality of the act, I believe extreme force is justified to protect myself and my home. I also live 'way out in the country and cannot rely on the police.
Former Officer piping in- Laws are different from state to state but here in New York a homeowner has no need to retreat and can use deadly physical force. I would have no problem using my weapon on the invader, and I have no intention of getting into the finer points of NYPL artical 35 with the invader (when you can and cannot use force and how much)I would advise all gun owners to get their states version of the penal law that covers the use of force and READ and understand it!
People who get shot tend to bleed a fair amount. If you drag someone from spot A to spot B after you shoot him you should find a trail of blood. Of course it is possible to hit someone in a spot where he’ll bleed more internally then externally.
I can’t give you a blanket answer. The time it happened to me I told them to leave the premises. Of course it was broad daylight so I could see whether they were armed or not and I was far enough away that I felt confident that they couldn’t reach me before I could shoot both of them.
Had this occured at night and they had actually made it into the house I’d say that the odds of them being shot by me would have increased dramatically. I don’t necessarily feel any compulsion to warn someone who has used force to gain entry into my home. I’d be willing to bet that most homes in my area have guns in them. Anyone breaking in already knows the risk.
I had a guy try to break into my house while I was there. I kept my gun pointed at him while waiting for the cops. He was not able to get into the house before the cops got there and hauled him off. He was extremely drunk, and dint know where he was, or what he was doing. I am glad he didnt get throught the door, because I would have shot him.
While in Texas, your pretty much ok with shooting people for a variety of reasons, the legal hassle is more than I would wanna deal with. If I catch someone breaking in, I point my gun at them and ask them to halt. If they turn around and run, I am not gonna shoot them. The lawyer fees will be to high, even if I do win. If they continue to break in, try to harm me or mine etc, all bets are off.