[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
:eek: The Jordan Valley?! That’s not only east of the Green Line, it’s east of the Wall! How can they do this and expect anyone believe they have any intention of allowing “independent” Palestine an open border with Jordan?!
[/QUOTE]
Started GD thread. Go into your corners and . . .
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
:eek: The Jordan Valley?! That’s not only east of the Green Line, it’s east of the Wall! How can they do this and expect anyone believe they have any intention of allowing “independent” Palestine an open border with Jordan?!
[/QUOTE]
Israel breaks promise to U.S. with settlement
But fear not! I’m sure Finn will be here shortly to [del]bullshit[/del] explain exactly how Israel is behaving in the uttermost correct of fashions.
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
What, this post, with this link? No, I don’t think that debunks or even contradicts what Gideon Levy was saying in Ha’aretz. Levy, I think, was talking about the whole record of events in Gaza since June 2006. The cease-fire has only been in place a month, and the Israelis are about to resume fighting. And the “humanitarian crisis” in Gaza remains as bad as ever, fighting or no, and is mostly the work of Israel (though the Palestinians don’t help matters any by fighting each other).
[/QUOTE]
Ah, so when you answer what is going on in Gaza “now” you don’t mean now, and you don’t mean from withdrawl until June 2006 while Qassam rockets rained without response, you mean a particular several month period of the past. Ah that’s clear.
And sorry. My confusion. I thought that when a government allows/authorizes rocket attacks on a neighbor, that maybe, just maybe, the neighbor’s attempt to stop it is at least somewhat her own fault.
:rolleyes:
BG you are not a jerk. Don’t act like one.
[QUOTE=DSeid]
Ah, so when you answer what is going on in Gaza “now” you don’t mean now, and you don’t mean from withdrawl until June 2006 while Qassam rockets rained without response, you mean a particular several month period of the past. Ah that’s clear.
[/QUOTE]
No, I mean a period of several months including the present and during which there has been a lot of “rampaging.” The current cease-fire being but a brief interlude before hostilities resume, apparently. And you’re not even suggesting Gideon Levy was wrong, are you?
[QUOTE=Alessan]
Really? I wouldn’t say that. Unlike you, I’ve actually been there. Seing something with your own two eyes may not be as good as actually living it, but it’s better than watching it on TV. I’ve visited the Territories as a civilan and as a soldier, I’ve known Palestinians, and I even speak a little Arabic.
More than that - we Israelis are not like Americans in Iraq (sorry, guys). We make every effort to understand everything about the Arab world, be it culture, politics or religion. I assure you, our legislators know the difference between Sunnis and Shiites.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t disagree with a single thing you said, but I still think this does not qualify you to speak on behalf of Palestinians, anymore than a liberal White South African who did good works in the townships in '76 would be qualified to speak to the Black South African experience. Speak as an observer, yes, but speak as* the victim*, no.
I’ve said it before, if circumstances forced me to live in the Middle East, Israel is where I would want to live. Best government, great people, wonderful countryside. I fully support the right of Israel to exist, I agree that Hamas are crazy, I agree that Israel has a right to secure itself.
But the settlements, those just aren’t right. Sorry, they may be defensible from both Zionist and some security standpoints, but from where I stand, they are just flat-out wrong. And they create a kind of Apartheid situation in the OTs. Now, we can argue about whether a kind of Apartheid exists in Israel proper (I think it does, just from the existence of the Right of Return alone), but I think there’s a lot less wiggle room to argue against its existence in the OTs.
What FinnAgain doesn’t seem to realise, as far as I can tell from his increasingly muddled arguments, is that even if it is justified, it still can be Apartheid. It’s a situational condemnation, not a universal demonization of the total morality of every Israeli. Even nice guys can get it wrong.
Apartheid is never right, an abomination.
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
No, I mean a period of several months including the present and during which there has been a lot of “rampaging.” The current cease-fire being but a brief interlude before hostilities resume, apparently. And you’re not even suggesting Gideon Levy was wrong, are you?
[/QUOTE]
Sigh.
BG As I’ve said before, the concept of Pitting someone generally has little appeal to me. I won’t go back and forth on this. I gain no pleasure from interchanges trying to convince someone or others that they were acting like jerks. I have made my comment to you because you have generally shown yourself to be someone worthy of some respect. This is in direct comparison to several others who have posted here, for whom my pointing out jerky behavior would be a waste of effort. Maybe you’ve been “hanging around” them so much it is rubbing off, I don’t know. But the presence of intelligent people who debate fairly from other perspectives than my own is part of the appeal of this place rather than other rantfest locations possible. I regret seeing your quality decline.
If you don’t want to recognize that dropping the link you did where and when and how you did was jerky, then fine. If I have not in the past demonstrated any reason for you to respect me and to give a hoot about what I think, then so be it. Nevertheless, my opinion of you is somewhat diminished. And to answer your question, that whole link I suggest is a pile of steaming shit, yes. And even the current link is being misrepresented: “Israelis are about to resume fighting” when the article discusses how
Once again, sigh.
[QUOTE=Sevastopol]
Apartheid is never right, an abomination.
[/QUOTE]
Tangentially, I’ve often heard “apartheid” pronounced as “apart-hide”, but the correct pronunciation is “apart-hate”.