I should correct that because dream reports do seem easier to collect from people when awakened from the REM stage that a fair number of researchers still work under this fiction. If all you want to do is collect vivid, lengthy and detailed dream reports it is a fiction that “works”.
The author of that site describes very much the same type of experience as I have had, but reached a different conclusion as to what the experiences are. It sounds to me like all these different states (wakefulness, dreaming, astral projection, etc) exist without any definite indication of which ones are “real” and which are “imaginary” (other than the eventual results of this test). Until such time as I undergo another AP state and can test its validity, it seems to revolve around the question “How do we know, that what we know, is what we really know”.
I have a question for cityboy916.
(I apologize in advance if this has already been asked and answered. I’ve kept up with this thread from the beginning, but I’m not going to re-read the seven pages to verify that this hasn’t been addressed.)
Let’s assume for the moment that you can project yourself astrally. That some part of you can leave your physical body to travel to distant locations to view what is there. How do you know where to locate glee? Obviously, in order to view the items on the desktop, you have to first at least find the house and room the desk is in.
Are you claiming that in addition to being able to astrally project, that the AP state also makes you omniscient? You just know where to “travel”? If you can know where someone lives just via their anonymous screen name, what else do you know in this AP state?
I can answer part of this:
It is well that you include “wakefulness”. When it gets right down to it, the entire of reality is a construct in the mind. We don’t “see” or “hear” anything but rather interpret neural impulses, sometimes specifically modifying it to match our expectations (the whole basis of many “optical illusions”). This is why dreams and reality can seem so much alike - they are very much alike. Without outside impulses the brain just interprets whatever happens through and we remember that as dreams (imho of course).
That’s a valid question, since I have no personal experience in finding somebody just through an internet board, only assurance that it can be done. I really should dig up a cite for the claim that it’s easier to project to a person than to a place. Seems to me it’s from one of Dr. Monroe’s books, therefore my cite is in a box piled up someplace under a bunch of other boxes. :smack:
However, I do have a few anecdotes of me dreaming something relevant to another person or another person guessing something about me, strictly through a message board or through e-mail. So that reassures me that if AP really involves leaving the body, and if the anecdotes demonstrate any legitimate kind of “psychic” ability, then locating people based on such scant information is certainly possible.
CarnalK: very good point.
What really bothers me is what is implied if astral projection exists. If we can see, feel, think and move without use of our physical bodies(apparently better than we can with our bodies!), then that would mean that our brain cells, eyes, nervous system and for that matter, our entire body is of no use to us whatsoever and in reality serves no actual purpose. In fact, it would mean that we would never have developed a body in the first place. Either our body functions the way we currently understand it to function, and we need brain cells to think, eyes to see, nerves to feel, and muscles to move, all wrapped up in a physical body, or we don’t.
Amen, wish I could’ve said it as perfectly as you.
Some people who have the ability to project themselves… well, there’s those who can walk the astral plane as they call it. I’ve never ever been able to do this. I have been able to make some sort of connection with certain people though, very strong connections. Will I call it AP? Nope… because I don’t KNOW for certain that’s what it is. I just call it my strange ability. I can see certain things, mainly the room the person is in and anything personally connected to them in some way. I know I’m sounding like a total freakish weirdo but it’s the truth. So mabey that’s what Cityboy can do, mabey he’s the same as me. I have been able to actually induce it though but this has been happening since I was around 15/16 years old.
Grem
IF, and that absolutely in no way means I believe it can, someone was able to view a room in England, this is what I would think. If everything under-handed or co-incidental was ruled out and there was no way the room was seen by that person physically, my next theory would not be actual AP, although the person might believe it to be. It would be that we have some sort of mental connection and are able to access someone else’s actual physical viewing of the room. I still wouldn’t necessarily be thinking along spiritual lines, but more along the physical time/space quantum angle. Gremlyn brought this up and I can say that this kind of thing has happened to me occasionally, but regularly, but yes it does sound freakish and weird. I continue to believe it’s coincidence until something disproves that, but to me anyway, it would make more sense than some part of me taking a trip. I’ll continue to do my flying commercially.
Well, well. You can’t project yourself, but you can see stuff remotely. So why don’t you submit a list of objects on Glee’s desk? Until you do, you sound like a total freakish weirdo. Hurry up, CityBoy916 might perform at any minute and terminate this test!
Aww…lovely. More of that “free-floating anger”, I see?
No. Merely an expected reaction to yet another claimed but unproven super power.
No, just quoting the total freakish weirdo’s own post! 
This seems a very unscientific attitude.
If astral projection exists, then we have extended our knowledge, and can improve society.
Would you deny that evolution has produced redundant bits within our bodies?
Are you claiming that the argument above proves something?
Please ignore ill-mannered posters!
However you do make an extraordinary claim. Can you prove it?
have you ever tested yourself with your ‘connected’ people?
How does someone become a person you can ‘see’?
How would I do this?
Then could you ‘see’ my room, and the objects on my desk?
Damn right it does. We’re not talking about an appendix or an extra nipple here-if astral projection is real, our entire body is redundant.
I knew I shouldn’t have posted in here. Sheesh.
Okay let’s see. What I said about my ability is what one poster said. A claim. Can I prove it? How would I do that? I can try to see Glee’s room, I won’t back down from it but I won’t sit here and tell you all that I’m a psychic who can for damn sure see all because I’ve made mistakes on the color of things a few times. I can explain that for whoever wants me to. The times it’s happened I’ve been sitting & chatting with the person on progs like Yahoo or ICQ, etc. Can I do it through SDMB…we’ll see.
I didn’t post in here to be rude and it’s pretty bad the rude responses I got. I was shocked, really.
Oh and the reason I said I couldn’t project myself… some people have talked about “walking on the astral plane”. I haven’t done that. I’ve been able to SEE things. Not wander about the house/building or touch anything. I don’t know how to explain it… I’ve not ran through the net to see whats what.
Sorry if I offended anyone with my claim.
Oh and Glee. The way I do it is I just clear my mind, close my eyes, relax, and basically that’s it. I can see certain things.
Y’know, there are forums on the internet way too numerous to mention where people make claims of some fantastic nature or another, and get no responses other than gullibility and blind adulation. I am afraid that this is not one of those places. If you make a claim of an ability that defies all know physics, you better believe that one of the first responses you’re going to get here is “Prove it!”
BTW, I’ve tried clearing my mind, closing my eyes and relaxing. In fact, I do it every night.
Then I wake up the next morning.
Make that “all known physics”