It has to have been since I was a youngster (and that’s a while back) that the category of utterances of questions has evolved to the point that the main “question word” (help on a name here) like Who, Why, When, How, Where, What, etc., has moved to the end of the sentence. Examples:
– And we can find this where?
– You’re going to tell me what?
– And you were going to tell us when?
If you’re young enough that this seems like the norm to you, just say that.
But if you can remember the first time you heard such a thing, and if it made your ears perk up, can you identify the source(s) for it? Maybe the year, roughly?
It seems ubiquitous now and often has a humorous or sarcastic flavor.
If I were on Jeopardy or Millionaire and were asked its origin place and time, I would put it in NYC or “The Valley” maybe as far back as the 70’s or 80’s. But that’s a really wild stab.
Any help? Could Yoda have helped get this sort of thing moving?
(My reasoning behind placing this in CS is that I have strong suspicions it relates to TV and/or movies. If the GQ aspect is more the issue, by all means move it.)
The construction you used in the thread title makes it sound like a Yiddishism, actually. I’m quite familiar with what you’re talking about, though. It almost always has a connotation to it that’s more complex than just a syntax shakeup. The implied emotion could be sarcasm, impatience, frustration, or confusion.
The first thing that sprang to my mind is **"…and this affects me how?" ** I definitely first heard it said by a t.v. character in the early to mid eighties , but the specifics elude me.
Nah. Love it. Makes me sparkle. I just know it’s newer than I am and was curious.
I second the notion that it has Yiddish origins which is why I would pick NYC or at least “up east” as the likely point of origin, which I guess means Eastern Europe?
It certainly sounds Yiddish to me. It and German both jumble parts of the sentence around in ways that sound funny to English speakers, including putting important words way at the end of the sentence. (Although often verbs, not adjectives.)
I believe I heard similar things in the early 60’s… while facing my mother’s wrath. We come from a Pennsylvania Dutch ancestry, which also comes from German.
I have an unciteable sense that it’s from David Spade-era SNL, and started with such snarky constructions as “And you are . . . ?” and "And I should care about this *because *. . . " This evolved into “And I should care about this why?” etc.
Were there instances of this sort of thing outside your family? Community perhaps? Your placing this in the 60’s has it older than I remember it. I feel confident that my own exposure originated on TV (maybe movies, too) and while it may have been ethnic in its original usages, by now it’s commonplace with the white bread and mayo crowd, too.
Nope. Yiddishism. Cite-My family and various other Jews. I heard plenty of folks use this syntax long before I’d ever heard of David Spade.
In its early years, Mad magazine used a lot of Yiddish syntax, Yiddish words, and nonsense words that sounded Yiddish (for example, Potzrebie). Some Marvel comics also used Yiddishisms. This should not be surprising as Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were both New York Jews.
Yoda’s syntax is definitely Yiddish. “Yoda, you seek? Found him, you have. A nosh, you want? Tea, I’ll make. On the couch, sit. Comfortable, you should be.”
As bagels and other bits of Jewish culture spread, so did Yiddish.
So then, DocCathode, are you saying this goes back to the old country/countries and has been part of the Yiddish-speaking segment all these years? What’s that make? 100 years or better?
How far back does it go? Ya got me. Were American Jews talking like this for decades before it spread into mainstream culture? Yes. Who_Me?'s mention of mom does point to this construction being found in the original German (I think Yiddish comes from Low German, but I could be wrong.).
:smack: I forgot an excellent example. Kaballah goes back centuries. The average Jew might have been vague on the details, but certainly knew that Kaballah existed and could probably point you to a wise man in the village who practiced Gemmatria and the rest. The average American gentile had never heard of Kaballah. Then, Madonna hooked up with those lying mamzers at the Kaballah Learning Centre. Suddenly, fake Kaballah books, tapes, and especially red yarn bracelets were everywhere.