And now: What about all those cops turning their backs on De Blasio?

[Loach]

@Donald_Rump

Can any conservative on this board articulate what de Blasio said or did that constituted anti-cop propaganda, threw police under the bus, or makes him culpable for the deaths of Officers Ramos and Liu?

I don’t think he is culpable. However he is very clearly adversarial towards the NYPD. For someone who won by such a large margin * he is a shockingly bad politician who is trying very hard to learn on the job what it means to run a diverse city. If you think that all the animosity comes from one or two statements you are wrong. And yes, Al Sharpton is a running theme here.

*(he did get 70% of the vote but there was only something like 27% voter turn out. And it’s only been a year but I had to look up who his opponent was so there wasn’t really a strong field.)

He won on a platform that criticized the NYPD.

He uses Al Sharpton as a frequent unpaid advisor.

He called for a public conference which turned into Sharpton chastising the police on camera while Bratton sat there next to him eating shit. It made it seem like Al Sharpton had more power over what is going to happen to the NYPD than the police commissioner. That lead to photoshopped NYPD IDs with Sharpton’s picture with the rank of commissioner going around the internet. It was embarrassing to see.

The mayor’s wife who is a paid city employee had a chief of staff who was Sharpton’s former spokesperson. That chief of staff lied on her background check about the reason why she had to live in New Jersey. It was because her live in boyfriend had been convicted of manslaughter in the past and was on probation on other charges. Including eluding while said chief of staff was in the car. He also frequently has a lot of unpolitical things to say about police on social media. All the while Di Blasio defended her and her criminal boyfriend and son until the shit started to pile up too high and she had to resign. That same chief of staff attended police CompStat meetings. That is where all crime in the city is discussed and the local commanders answer for what they are doing about it. Di Blassio immediately dumped another aide just because she was dating Eliot Spitzer. There is speculation she was put in the job ($170,000 a year) as a favor to Sharpton. Sharpton remained silent on the election and did not back the only black candidate as expected.

He put on the city payroll as a community director a former campaign aide who got into hot water during the campaign for sending out tweets praising Christopher Dorner and such bon mots as Fuck The Police.

When looking to fill a supervisor vacancy on his NYPD security detail it came out that only a black officer could get the job. Which obviously goes against NYPD policy.

During recent protests the NYPD was ordered to allow protestors to shut down major thoroughfares and not enforce the law. It wasn’t until some officers were assaulted that they were allowed to attempt to arrest anyone.

Recently Di Blasio reappointed a judge who is known to be extremely soft on crime to include releasing without bail two people who were arrested for making threats against police officers after the assassination of the two officers. He also failed to reappoint a judge who is perceived as tough against crime despite the good recommendation from his own vetting team.

That is just what I remember off the top of my head. I know there were other things said and done in the last year and before. This is an ongoing rift and it isn’t one sided. If he had made that one statement about his son there would have been maybe some grumblings, some tweets, some facebook posts but not much more. The NYPD feels not only that they don’t have support at the top, they have someone who is actively working against them.

[crowmanyclouds]

@doorhinge

You’re obviously talking to andros and elucidator since they are the one who chose to use the term in this thread.

Your not seriously suggesting that andros and elucidator’s posts can be read thusly,

NOT! Originally Posted by andros
You are truly a very special racial epithet.

and

NOT! Originally Posted by elucidator
Oh, racial epithet, please!

are you?

@dropzone

Correction: Saw it in a movie once. {…}

Are you misremembering this,Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: What’s your name, scumbag?
Private Snowball: Sir, Private Brown, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Bullshit! From now on you’re Private Snowball. Do you like that name?
Private Snowball: Sir, yes, sir!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Well there’s one thing that you won’t like, Private Snowball, they don’t serve fried chicken and watermelon on a daily basis in my mess hall.
Private Snowball: Sir, yes, sir!From, obviously, Full Metal Jacket?

CMC fnord!

[Loach]

@Strassia

Again, I have never been a LEO, but in the military this would be a big problem. And to your earlier statement which I missed, no matter what people on the internet say, military personnel who show public disrespect for the president, or anyone else in their chain of command while in uniform would be in a good deal of trouble. That was covered in boot camp and reiterated throughout training. I joined in 1993 and Bill Clinton was never popular with the military, but you respect the office no matter what.

Officers are completely forbidden from disrespecting the President, in or out of uniform, public or private:

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj2.htm#888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS

As many here are very quick to point out the police are not the military. And even your cite only pertains to commissioned military officers. Article 88 does not cover enlisted or NCOs. So even in the military it does not apply to most. There are other parts of the UCMJ it might fall under but you would have to judge each instance on it’s own merits.

[Donald_Rump]

@Loach

I don’t think he is culpable. However he is very clearly adversarial towards the NYPD. For someone who won by such a large margin * he is a shockingly bad politician who is trying very hard to learn on the job what it means to run a diverse city. If you think that all the animosity comes from one or two statements you are wrong. And yes, Al Sharpton is a running theme here.

Very well put and comprehensive.

I was never enamored with de Blasio. The whole Democratic primary was a clown show. My first thought when he got the nomination was that the job of public advocate (itself a bit of a joke) seems like the perfectly wrong background for a mayor. I agreed with de Blasio’s stance on stop-and-frisk but not much else. I voted for Lhota because he seemed like a competent technocrat who wasn’t much of an ideologue, and a decent guy.

I think you present the situation quite fairly: de Blasio’s political instincts and integrity are both questionable. As a result, although someone should tackle police reform, unfortunately he is not the one to do it. I worry that he may wind up doing this cause more harm than good.

At the same time, I strongly object to the absolutely ridiculous, over-the-top demonization campaign that the police unions and especially Pat Lynch and the PBA have been waging against him, aided and abetted by the shameless New York Post. De Blasio may have more harsh words for the NYPD than the typical mayor, and his relationship with Al Sharpton is pretty sleazy and undoubtedly relates to his reelection campaign, but the idea that he has blood on his hands is absurd. And the NYPD slowdown is totally out of line, not that I mind an effective suspension of alternate side parking. These things are actually turning me into a de Blasio supporter, even as I couldn’t stand the guy just a few months ago!

[Strassia]

@Loach

As many here are very quick to point out the police are not the military. And even your cite only pertains to commissioned military officers. Article 88 does not cover enlisted or NCOs. So even in the military it does not apply to most. There are other parts of the UCMJ it might fall under but you would have to judge each instance on it’s own merits.

Agreed that police are not military. I would be shocked if any of them were brought up on criminal charges. However, they just clearly and publicly attempted to humiliate there boss’s boss’s…boss’s boss. And they did it not as private citizens who have a 1st Amendment right to criticize or protest the government, but in official uniform.

Since the mayor is a political office, I expect the decision of how to handle them will be more impacted by politics than law. But legally, the only thing that I see that would stop disciplinary action is a union agreement.

[Loach]

@Strassia

Agreed that police are not military. I would be shocked if any of them were brought up on criminal charges. However, they just clearly and publicly attempted to humiliate there boss’s boss’s…boss’s boss. And they did it not as private citizens who have a 1st Amendment right to criticize or protest the government, but in official uniform.

Since the mayor is a political office, I expect the decision of how to handle them will be more impacted by politics than law. But legally, the only thing that I see that would stop disciplinary action is a union agreement.

Contract. Rules and regulations. Progressive discipline. I would be very surprised if the NYPD doesn’t have a progressive discipline system. Meaning that if found to be violating policy you can get anything from a verbal counseling up to firing with the levels of discipline graded as per the level of the offense and previous disciplinary history. As to whether turning your back on a TV screen violates their rules and regulations, that’s why labor lawyers make big money.

And of course at the very least hundreds of officers from other departments also participated. To them Di Blasio is just some dude.

[doorhinge]

@doorhinge

Ya know, now that I think about it, wasn’t “snowflake” considered a racist term for black people, at one time? Has the meaning changed or are you guys using it differently?

Oh! Look! I asked for clarification of the posts made by andros and elucidator.

@crowmanyclouds

Your not seriously suggesting that andros and elucidator’s posts can be read thusly,
and
are you?

(post shortened)

So no, I’m not suggesting anything, yet. You are of course free to misinterpret the conversation any way you wish.

[doorhinge]

@Donald_Rump

All right people. Let’s get down to some actual substantive business here. Can any conservative on this board articulate what de Blasio said or did that constituted anti-cop propaganda, threw police under the bus, or makes him culpable for the deaths of Officers Ramos and Liu?

Someone please shake me from my uncomprehending stupor.

(post shortened)

De Blasio can now say whatever he, or his advisors, think will get the police department to believe that the De Blasio is actually on their side. Maybe it’s too little, too late. Maybe not.

De Blasio ran a campaign on many issues including an anti-police stance. After the election, the De Blasio dropped the cities stop-and-frisk appeal against a ruling made by a judge who would later be removed from the case. That certainly suggests that the judge’s ruling was horseshit and the appeal should have been allowed to continue. Strike 1.

De Blasio’s initial reaction to the mobs “I can’t breathe” protests appeared to be pro-protester and anti-police. Strike 2.

Two cops were then assassinated by some asshole who bought into the media and protesters “I can’t breathe” spin on the arrest of Garner. Strike 3.

The NYPD can provide you with many more reasons why they believe De Blasio is an asshole. Strike 4 thru ???.

In your linked article, De Blasio blames the media for helping to perpetuate mayor/police and racial divides. The media’s primary concern is to boost their own ratings so I don’t believe De Blasio is wrong to blame the media.

[Strassia]

@Loach

Contract. Rules and regulations. Progressive discipline. I would be very surprised if the NYPD doesn’t have a progressive discipline system. Meaning that if found to be violating policy you can get anything from a verbal counseling up to firing with the levels of discipline graded as per the level of the offense and previous disciplinary history. As to whether turning your back on a TV screen violates their rules and regulations, that’s why labor lawyers make big money.

And of course at the very least hundreds of officers from other departments also participated. To them Di Blasio is just some dude.

Agreed about the police from other departments. The only way they could get in trouble is if their departments had regulations against participating in political protests in uniform, which is possible.

But I think it is disingenuous to keep referring to it as turning your back to a TV. This was an action intended to show contempt for the mayor. That is the issue, not the form of the protest, but the fact of it be carried out by uniformed officers.

@doorhinge

(post shortened)

De Blasio can now say whatever he, or his advisors, think will get the police department to believe that the De Blasio is actually on their side. Maybe it’s too little, too late. Maybe not.

De Blasio ran a campaign on many issues including an anti-police stance. After the election, the De Blasio dropped the cities stop-and-frisk appeal against a ruling made by a judge who would later be removed from the case. That certainly suggests that the judge’s ruling was horseshit and the appeal should have been allowed to continue. Strike 1.

De Blasio’s initial reaction to the mobs “I can’t breathe” protests appeared to be pro-protester and anti-police. Strike 2.

Two cops were then assassinated by some asshole who bought into the media and protesters “I can’t breathe” spin on the arrest of Garner. Strike 3.

The NYPD can provide you with many more reasons why they believe De Blasio is an asshole. Strike 4 thru ???.

In your linked article, De Blasio blames the media for helping to perpetuate mayor/police and racial divides. The media’s primary concern is to boost their own ratings so I don’t believe De Blasio is wrong to blame the media.

I don’t see how your strike 3 is De Blasio’s fault. Whatever his disagreements with the police officers on policy and practices prior to all this, none of his statements can be taken as encouraging violence against police. Is any public figure who ever said anything bad about Ronald Reagan prior to Hinkley taking a shot at him partially responsible for the assassination attempt?

[BigAppleBucky]

Without reading all ten pages of this thread, I will add just this.

The cops seem very childish to me. They’re having a tantrum.

The mayor said he’d warned his son never to make any gestures around cops that might been deemed threatening. Oh my. Horrors!!

• Just deal with it (little) boys.

[John_Mace]

@Strassia

Agreed that police are not military. I would be shocked if any of them were brought up on criminal charges. However, they just clearly and publicly attempted to humiliate there boss’s boss’s…boss’s boss. And they did it not as private citizens who have a 1st Amendment right to criticize or protest the government, but in official uniform.

Since the mayor is a political office, I expect the decision of how to handle them will be more impacted by politics than law. But legally, the only thing that I see that would stop disciplinary action is a union agreement.

Really? What rules apply here? Suppose I’m bored, and just want to look at this hot chick behind me? I’m standing outside a funeral, and there is this large screen with the mayor on it. What am I obliged to do? Can I close my eyes? Can I stare off to the left at the pretty birdies taking flight? Sure, you and I know (wink, wink) that the police were dissing the mayor, but how does one actually prove it in this context? It’s a mass, public rally, not some Police Event. Am I really obliged to stare unflinchingly at a TV screen at a public event just because the mayor is on it?

[doorhinge]

@Strassia

…I don’t see how your strike 3 is De Blasio’s fault. Whatever his disagreements with the police officers on policy and practices prior to all this, none of his statements can be taken as encouraging violence against police. Is any public figure who ever said anything bad about Ronald Reagan prior to Hinkley taking a shot at him partially responsible for the assassination attempt?

We’re talking about why the police do not respect or like the mayor, right? Take #3 off the list and add a dozen of your own. The end result is that it appears the police don’t believe the mayor has their back. It also appears that the mayor is now trying to make nice with the police. And neither side likes the pot-stirring that the media is guilty of.

[levdrakon]

I’m fine with cops showing their displeasure with a mayor who they feel doesn’t support them in the ceremonial way they did it. But, De Blasio hasn’t been around that long. NYPD has been around a very long time and most people know corruption has run deep for most of that time, so I’m not all that sympathetic towards their feelings, especially when it seems also planned by the union, which I assume is even more corrupt than the department they represent.

[doorhinge]

@BigAppleBucky

Without reading all ten pages of this thread, I will add just this.

The cops seem very childish to me. They’re having a tantrum.

The mayor said he’d warned his son never to make any gestures around cops that might been deemed threatening. Oh my. Horrors!!

• Just deal with it (little) boys.

It appears that they are dealing with it. And the OP doesn’t like it. Some of the other posters don’t like it either. OTOH, some of the posters don’t seem to mind.

[John_Mace]

@levdrakon

I’m fine with cops showing their displeasure with a mayor who they feel doesn’t support them in the ceremonial way they did it. But, De Blasio hasn’t been around that long. NYPD has been around a very long time and most people know corruption has run deep for most of that time, so I’m not all that sympathetic towards their feelings, especially when it seems also planned by the union, which I assume is even more corrupt than the department they represent.

Indeed. The cops, and their union, are no angels here. They’re mostly assholes. The mayor, whatever his faults, did not dis the police with is recent remarks. These cops are hyper-sensitive in demanding almost complete deference. If you’re not with us, you’re against us.

But it’s quite humorous to see this very left leaning site suddenly so very concerned about respect for authority. How dare those cops not stare at the TV screen with the mayor on it!

[Strassia]

@John_Mace

Really? What rules apply here? Suppose I’m bored, and just want to look at this hot chick behind me? I’m standing outside a funeral, and there is this large screen with the mayor on it. What am I obliged to do? Can I close my eyes? Can I stare off to the left at the pretty birdies taking flight? Sure, you and I know (wink, wink) that the police were dissing the mayor, but how does one actually prove it in this context? It’s a mass, public rally, not some Police Event. Am I really obliged to stare unflinchingly at a TV screen at a public event just because the mayor is on it?

Have you not read any of my posts? Turning your back to a TV is not what we are talking about. I will ask you, John Mace, specifically, this question again: Do you have any doubt that this was a planned action intended to show disdain and disrespect for the Mayor Bill De Blasio? Have any of the officers involved claimed it was a coincidence that they all just happened to turn around at the same time due to many and various reasons completely unrelated to their feelings about the Mayor?

Or put another way, of course there is nothing wrong with calling in sick if you have the flu. If 50+% of the force calls in sick on the same day that a contract decision is due, then there is an undeclared strike going on.

Or, put yet another way, of course there is nothing wrong with a police officer using his discretion to not issue a ticket for a misdemeanor. But when all police officers stop issuing tickets entirely, there is a work slowdown/stoppage/whatever going on.

@John_Mace

Indeed. The cops, and their union, are no angels here. They’re mostly assholes. The mayor, whatever his faults, did not dis the police with is recent remarks. These cops are hyper-sensitive in demanding almost complete deference. If you’re not with us, you’re against us.

But it’s quite humorous to see this very left leaning site suddenly so very concerned about respect for authority. How dare those cops not stare at the TV screen with the mayor on it!

You know what most left leaning people really don’t think is a good thing? When military or paramilitary security forces start acting as if they have no civilian oversight.

[John_Mace]

@Strassia

Have you not read any of my posts? Turning your back to a TV is not what we are talking about.

Have you read the thread title? Let me remind you: And now: What about all those cops turning their backs on De Blasio? So, maybe you’re in the wrong thread if that’s not what you’re discussing.

I will ask you, John Mace, specifically, this question again: Do you have any doubt that this was a planned action intended to show disdain and disrespect for the Mayor Bill De Blasio?

I don’t know that it was planned.

Have any of the officers involved claimed it was a coincidence that they all just happened to turn around at the same time due to many and various reasons completely unrelated to their feelings about the Mayor?

Why should they? No one has challenged them yet. If they were to be challenged in a disciplinary action, who knows what they might claim? And if they claim it was just a coincidence, how do you prove it was not? Remember, you are making the claim, so the burden of proof is on you.

Or put another way, of course there is nothing wrong with calling in sick if you have the flu. If 50+% of the force calls in sick on the same day that a contract decision is due, then there is an undeclared strike going on.

They are not calling in sick.

Or, put yet another way, of course there is nothing wrong with a police officer using his discretion to not issue a ticket for a misdemeanor. But when all police officers stop issuing tickets entirely, there is a work slowdown/stoppage/whatever going on.

So, then it should be trivial for you to show examples of police forces being disciplined for not issuing enough parking tickets. Please show us your examples. Oh, you don’t have any? Well, then how do you know what would happen?

You know what most left leaning people really don’t think is a good thing? When military or paramilitary security forces start acting as if they have no civilian oversight.

Then it’s a good thing that’s not happening here!

[John_Mace]

@Strassia

Have you not read any of my posts? Turning your back to a TV is not what we are talking about.

Missed the edit window. You are aware, are you not, that “turning their backs on a TV a screen” is actually what happened? Only cops outside turned their backs (to the TV screen). Cops inside, where the mayor was speaking, did not turn their backs (where there was no TV screen).

So, if you’re discussing some hypothetical situation where a TV screen was not present, then again, maybe you’re in the wrong thread.

[elucidator]

Now that’s kinda weird, isn’t it? Were the cops outside aware of what the cops inside were doing? Vice versa? Was this agreed in advance, some sort of compromise between respect and insolence?

“OK, so we give polite and respectful attention to the man himself, because that’s appropriate, but his TV image? Fuhgeddabout it! That we protest!”

Were the cops inside all ranking officers, or something? Some other selection mechanism? Da fuq?

[Superdude]

You know, it occurs to me that entire situation would have been avoided if the cops had just said “with all due respect”