And now: What about all those cops turning their backs on De Blasio?

[Steve_MB]

@SteveG1

No class, self important, petulant assholes.

Hey, Phred Phelps is dead; somebody was bound to fill his niche…

[Steve_MB]

@Donald_Rump

That patticular video was selectively edited. But the authenticity of a different video where hooligans chant, “what do we want? Dead cops!” is not in dispute.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b-dr_IhQu-I

…and Gish is coming around the quarterturn… look at that gallop!

[Steve_MB]

NYPD cops find ways of filling time during their work slowdown:

NYPD cop rides on hood of patrol car and suffers head injury after falling onto street

Police said they did not know why the officer was riding on the car’s hood. A video by Breaking911.com shows the cop lying on top of the car until it came to a stop, sending him flying to the ground in Brooklyn on Monday. He suffered a head injury and was taken to Lutheran Medical Center…

[John_Mace]

@Strassia

I was never a LEO, but I was in the military. When you are in uniform you are no longer acting as a private citizen and your speech and actions are curtailed accordingly. In the private sector, you can be fired from any job for making statements in an official capacity that the organisation deems to be against its interests or wishes.

The only question in my mind preventing the city from taking action, if they so choose, is union rules. Free speech should protect them if they spoke or acted as private citizens. It should not protect actions or speech in uniform.

Just to be clear, you really think that cops, because they are in uniform, must face a TV screen because it has an image of the mayor on it? You think that if the union has no rules protecting this action that it is, per se, insubordination?

[magellan01]

@John_Mace

Just to be clear, you really think that cops, because they are in uniform, must face a TV screen because it has an image of the mayor on it? You think that if the union has no rules protecting this action that it is, per se, insubordination?

The Mayor? Don’t be silly. Those laws should only exist for images of The Supreme Leader.

[Strassia]

@John_Mace

Just to be clear, you really think that cops, because they are in uniform, must face a TV screen because it has an image of the mayor on it? You think that if the union has no rules protecting this action that it is, per se, insubordination?

Not at all. In most cases context makes insubordination. If they are in formation (or even in a large group in uniform), and they jointly turn around specifically to show disrespect, then yes.

Are you contending that they did not specifically intend to show disapproval for the mayor by this action?

[SteveG1]

@Donald_Rump

In other words, you have no evidence.

This. No evidence and no cite.

Apparently in Bedford Stuy, the supposed “ground zero” for the work stoppage (call it what it IS) has had no effect on crime. No arrests. No tickets. No nothing. Life has gone on pretty much normally. Nothing much is going on. Streets are quiet. All hell has not broken loose. Folks are going about their days normally. If policing has stopped, nobody seems to be noticing. We’re told all 911 calls are being responded to and handled normally, it’s just the police aren’t doing anything.

Mayor de Blasio should applaud the NYPD for demonstrating how much they need a lot less people to keep crime low and preserve order. Then, start laying people off.

[SteveG1]

@Donald_Rump

In other words, you have no evidence.

This. No evidence and no cite.

Apparently in Bedford Stuy, the supposed “ground zero” for the work stoppage (call it what it IS) has had no effect on crime. No arrests. No tickets. No nothing. Life has gone on pretty much normally. Nothing much is going on. Streets are quiet. All hell has not broken loose. Folks are going about their days normally. If policing has stopped, nobody seems to be noticing. We’re told all 911 calls are being responded to and handled normally, it’s just the police aren’t doing anything.

Mayor de Blasio should applaud the NYPD for demonstrating how much they need a lot less people to keep crime low and preserve order. Then, start laying people off.

As for “stop and frisk” and “broken windows”, diBlasio was ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE by an overwhelming vote, because he promised action on police reform, starting with the end of stop-and-frisk tactics.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@SteveG1

Mayor de Blasio should applaud the NYPD for demonstrating how much they need a lot less people to keep crime low and preserve order. Then, start laying people off.

Heck, I bet the mayor could lay off half the force and then the other half could stay busy arresting the laid-off cops as they commit crimes, since they would no longer have the protection of being cops to make their behavior acceptable. Win-win.

[SteveG1]

@Steve_MB

Hey, Phred Phelps is dead; somebody was bound to fill his niche…

I suppose so.

[Donald_Rump]

All right people. Let’s get down to some actual substantive business here. Can any conservative on this board articulate what de Blasio said or did that constituted anti-cop propaganda, threw police under the bus, or makes him culpable for the deaths of Officers Ramos and Liu? Because all I see is this (bolding mine, with red to express my total inability to comprehend what the fuss is about):

QUESTION: Mr. Mayor, you were referring to protesters as people who are working to advance justice in society. The chants that we were hearing at the protests, '‘NYPD-KKK. How do you spell racist? KKK.’ Would you be comfort able with your young adults in your household chanting like this at the protests, and we’re hearing virtually every protest?

NYC MAYOR BILL de BLASIO: No, of course not.

QUESTION: What do you make of these specific, as well as other protesters who were literally getting in cops faces and yelling murderers.

de BLASIO: We’ve talk about this so many times and I’m not going to talk about it again. And now the question now is, what are you guys going to do? What are you guys going to do? Are you going to keep dividing us? I’m not talking about every single one of you, but let’s get real. Just in that question. 25,000 people marched down one of our streets a few days back, absolutely peaceful, no chants like that, peacefully calling for what they believed in as American citizens, and the NYPD protected them, and I told people at the time, I said it repeatedly, I got calls from all over this country with admiration for the NYPD for the way it protected people’s democratic rights.

I heard from some of the protesters who appreciated the NYPD. I heard from NYPD officers and leaders who said they saw peaceful protests, respectful protests. What you managed to do is pull up the few who do not represent the majority, who are saying unacceptable things, who shouldn’t be saying those things, and they – some who actually physically attacked police officers, which I’ve said is absolutely unacceptable. We will prosecute them to the fullest. Everyone must participate in finding those individuals, providing information to police, intervening to stop them, alerting the police. I will keep saying this over and over, and the question is, will you tell the world about it? Because you all are part of this, too.

So, yes, there some bad people who say inappropriate things. **There’s some people who say hateful things. They have no place in these protests. **They are not what I’m talking about. I am talking about, excuse me, I am talking about the vast majority of New Yorkers like the vast majority of Americans who believe in peaceful democratic process. I don’t care where they are in the political spectrum. The vast majority of our citizens are good and decent people who do not say negative things, racist things, nasty things to police, threatening things to police.

The few who want conflict, attempt that, and unfortunately so many times you guys enable that. I don’t see reports on the many decent, good people. I don’t see reports on the everyday cops who do the exemplary thing and hold the line and show restraint and discipline no matter what invective is hurled at them.

QUESTION: [INAUDIBLE]

de BLASIO: I am telling you over again again, that’s how you want to portray the world but we know a different reality. There are people who do that. It’s wrong. It’s wrong. They shouldn’t do that. It’s immoral, it’s wrong, it’s nasty, it’s negative. They should not do that but they, my friend, are not the majority. Stop portraying them as the majority.

This statement strikes me as eminently reasonable, in its entirety and to the word, and plainly demonstrates that Mayor de Blasio does not condone the hijacking of peaceful protests by hateful jerks spouting vile invective at his police officers, including but not limited to the hammer-carrying garbage-can-throwing professor that so traumatized our poor doorhinge.

And thisstatement:

Chirlane and I have had to talk to Dante for years about the dangers that he may face – good young man, law abiding young man, never would think to do anything wrong, and yet because of the history that still hangs over us, the dangers he may face. We’ve had to literally train him, as families have all over this city for decades, in how to take special care in any encounter he has with the police officers who are there to protect him. I’ve had to worry over the years. Chirlane’s had to worry. Is Dante safe each night? There are so many families in this city who feel that each and every night. Is my child safe?..Are they safe from the very people they want to have faith in as their protectors?

Look, I get it. Police resent the implication, even if it’s an overwhelmingly widespread view among people of color, that they do a poor job of treating all races fairly. Leave aside that this statement in no way implies that all police are racist, only that at least some are–just like the general population, except armed with a gun and a nightstick and with wide latitude granted by society to use those tools–which ought to be uncontroversial. But, a fortiori, how can this anodyne statement possibly be taken as an incitement to, or endorsement of, violence against cops? I declare David Duke is a racist fuckhead–am I inciting anyone to murder him in his bed?

Or, is the idea that any and all criticism of police and how they conduct their work = endorsement of vigilante extra-legal violence against random police officers?

Someone please shake me from my uncomprehending stupor.

[Inigo_Montoya]

@John_Mace

I’d like to see how many here would be lining up to condemn soldiers who turned their back on Bush had the president at the time attended a funeral for someone killed in Iraq.

Seriously, dude? Do you really not believe it’s possible to despise a war criminal (or whatever defamatory characterization you want to use on GWB) and still value military discipline?

[Lobohan]

@John_Mace

Just to be clear, you really think that cops, because they are in uniform, must face a TV screen because it has an image of the mayor on it? You think that if the union has no rules protecting this action that it is, per se, insubordination?

You’re not an idiot, yet you post drivel like this. It’s a conundrum.

[magellan01]

@Lobohan

You’re not an idiot, yet you post drivel like this. It’s a conundrum.

Which explains why there is no such conundrum with the stupidity you post.

[SteveG1]

@The Great Sun Jester

Seriously, dude? Do you really not believe it’s possible to despise a war criminal (or whatever defamatory characterization you want to use on GWB) and still value military discipline?

The military has very clear rules as to what is permitted when wearing the uniform. You can think your president or your commanding officer or your sergeant is the biggest putz that ever lived, but you WILL show all the respect due his rank and title. Or else. It’s always been that way, far as I know.

[Donald_Rump]

@Lobohan

You’re not an idiot, yet you post drivel like this. It’s a conundrum.

Whether turning their backs on the Mayor was dickish behavior unbecoming of uniformed officers is a matter of opinion. Whether turning their backs on the Mayor was grounds for dismissal is a matter of fact based in the law and the terms of their contract. No one has established that the latter actually holds true, so John Mace has the better point. IMO

[John_Mace]

@Strassia

Not at all. In most cases context makes insubordination. If they are in formation (or even in a large group in uniform), and they jointly turn around specifically to show disrespect, then yes.

Are you contending that they did not specifically intend to show disapproval for the mayor by this action?

I’m certain they did. But whether it amounts to insubordination is a different matter. I’d be surprised if it did.

@Lobohan

You’re not an idiot, yet you post drivel like this. It’s a conundrum.

You have examples of NYC policemen being charged with insubordination for not facing a TV screen with an image of the mayor on it? If so, I’d love to see it. If not, I have to wonder what makes you certain your interpretation of the law is correct.

Did you notice that in all the MSM reporting on this, not once was it said to have been a prosecutable offense? Did you notice that the commissioner, when asking that they not do this in the future never mentioned disciplinary action if they did? Why do you suppose that is?

[septimus]

@John_Mace

I’d love to see it.

Here’s a very interesting article cited in another thread. I’d like all Dopers offering NYPD assholes even a smidgen of indirect sympathy to read the article and comment.

I won’t quote from the article; I ask cop sympathisers to do so to prove they’ve read it. John Mace, have you clicked the link? Care to excerpt any portion that you found enlightening? (Or is the search for Paragraph 8, clause 2(b) definition of insubordination the only NYPD-related topic that seems relevant to you? :rolleyes:)

[John_Mace]

@septimus

Here’s a very interesting article cited in another thread. I’d like all Dopers offering NYPD assholes even a smidgen of indirect sympathy to read the article and comment.

I won’t quote from the article; I ask cop sympathisers to do so to prove they’ve read it. John Mace, have you clicked the link? Care to excerpt any portion that you found enlightening? (Or is the search for Paragraph 8, clause 2(b) definition of insubordination the only NYPD-related topic that seems relevant to you? :rolleyes:)

I don’t understand your point. I’ve repeatedly said, in this thread, that I think the cops are being jerks. I just don’t think that this particular form of jerkery is insubordination.

Now, kudos for finding an editorial that uses the term “insubordination”, if that makes you feel better. However, we can find almost anything we wish in some editorial somewhere. But the “i” word is not used in any reporting on the incident in question-- at least none that I’ve seen. And, there is no quote that I’ve seen from the commissioner going in that direction, either.

And no, just quoting chapter and verse from the code is not the same as understanding how the code is applied. If we were talking about the cops at an official event by the city where the cops turned their backs on the actual mayor (as opposed to a TV screen), I think you’d be on stronger ground. This was a private funeral and the mayor was projected on a screen (none of the cops inside did the turn their back thing).

But if you have some example of cops being disciplined for this or similar acts, then that would be definitive. I’ve looked and looked and looked and found nothing. I’m happy to be proven wrong, if such examples CAN be found.

[Strassia]

@John_Mace

I’m certain they did. But whether it amounts to insubordination is a different matter. I’d be surprised if it did.

Again, I have never been a LEO, but in the military this would be a big problem. And to your earlier statement which I missed, no matter what people on the internet say, military personnel who show public disrespect for the president, or anyone else in their chain of command while in uniform would be in a good deal of trouble. That was covered in boot camp and reiterated throughout training. I joined in 1993 and Bill Clinton was never popular with the military, but you respect the office no matter what.

Officers are completely forbidden from disrespecting the President, in or out of uniform, public or private:

888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj2.htm#888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS