And now: What about all those cops turning their backs on De Blasio?

[Smapti]

@doorhinge

It seems to me that the De Blasio administration (aka De Blasio) should have allowed to case to proceed thru the courts for a proper decision.

If the administration believed the policy was unlawful and that they could not in good faith defend it, then it would not have been appropriate for them to attempt to appeal it anyway just in order to appease a special interest group.

I know that making policy decisions for reasons that don’t involve appealing to the fringe is anathema and incomprehensible to the Republican worldview, but that doesn’t mean all of us think that way.

[John_Mace]

@Budget_Player_Cadet

Bad comparison. Why is the NYPD turning their backs on DeBlasio? Because he called for reform and pointed out that there’s a problem. Why would the soldiers turn their backs on Bush? Maybe because he lied his way into a pointless, unwinnable war? Hmm, yeah, totally the same situation.

I rest my case…

And it gets even worse when you consider the issue I mentioned back on page two. What’s the fight about, here? Bad apples within the police department, racism, and the fear people have when dealing with the police, compounded by numerous high-profile cases of some highly questionable homicides. By turning their backs on DeBlasio, what are these cops telling the world? What message are they sharing? Certainly not one that inspires confidence in the police, I’ll tell you that much! They are directly contributing to the atmosphere of fear and mistrust, and telling people “We take care of our own; fuck everyone else”. That’s a problem. That’s a big problem.

We can’t fire them for this. Free speech is free speech. But this attitude problem is really at the core of everything else. This Us-Vs.-Them mentality held by many in the police force, that means that we cannot trust them to take care of problems within their own ranks. That’s fucked up.

I agree.

[magellan01]

@Revenant_Threshold

No, it doesn’t. I was taught as a kid to take special care with scissors; that doesn’t mean people thought that I was more likely to stab myself than cut some paper, it just means they thought there was risk enough that a warning was worth it.

You screwed up your analogy. The point was that different individuals—what and black—should view the police as different degrees of threat. You analogy uses the threat inherent with scissors, which is the same threat for everyone.

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

@magellan01

You screwed up your analogy. The point was that different individuals—what and black—should view the police as different degrees of threat. You analogy uses the threat inherent with scissors, which is the same threat for everyone.

Actually, it might not be such a bad analogy.

[doreen]

@doorhinge

It seems to me that the De Blasio administration (aka De Blasio) should have allowed to case to proceed thru the courts for a proper decision.

What would be the point? Even if the city won the appeal and was permitted to allow stop and frisk to continue with no changes, de Blasio as the mayor had every right to direct his appointed police commissioner to change the policy. And I’m sure he would have, as he didn’t keep his plans secret during his campaign and still got elected with something like 75% of the vote.
Which of course doesn’t mean a majority of the population agrees with him about the need for police reforms- but it does suggest that if the majority disagree, they didn’t feel strongly enough about it to vote against him.

[magellan01]

@Budget_Player_Cadet

Bad comparison. Why is the NYPD turning their backs on DeBlasio? Because he called for reform and pointed out that there’s a problem. Why would the soldiers turn their backs on Bush? Maybe because he lied his way into a pointless, unwinnable war? Hmm, yeah, totally the same situation.

And it gets even worse when you consider the issue I mentioned back on page two. What’s the fight about, here? Bad apples within the police department, racism, and the fear people have when dealing with the police, compounded by numerous high-profile cases of some highly questionable homicides. By turning their backs on DeBlasio, what are these cops telling the world? What message are they sharing? Certainly not one that inspires confidence in the police, I’ll tell you that much! They are directly contributing to the atmosphere of fear and mistrust, and telling people “We take care of our own; fuck everyone else”. That’s a problem. That’s a big problem.

We can’t fire them for this. Free speech is free speech. But this attitude problem is really at the core of everything else. This Us-Vs.-Them mentality held by many in the police force, that means that we cannot trust them to take care of problems within their own ranks. That’s fucked up.

The reason they can’t be fired is that it was too many of them. If three guys did this, they may have very well be fired. If not that, disciplined in some other way.

The cops here were letting everyone know—everyone—that they disagree with how the Mayor views them. I see nothing wrong with that. They did it in the most respectful way possible. Simply turning their backs to him. If he wants to discipline or fire those that did, he can try. If it were just a few cops, he’d be in a good position to do so. But pretty much the entire police force disagrees with him. And any action he takes will make matters worse. DeBlasio is the one in the weaker position here. He will need to apologize sooner or later. Sooner is better, MUCH better. The cops were skeptical of him when he entered office, and now that skepticism has found justification.

@Budget_Player_Cadet

I think the outrage here is entirely justified. These cops did something phenomenally stupid and disgraceful, something that hurts them and everyone else.

How else might pretty much the entire police force display their strong disagreement? An op-ed piece in the Post and Daily News? Please.

I do agree that this is a bad situation, but it’s one of DeBlasio’s own making. It’s pretty hard to get an entire poise force feel like you gave them the shaft. It’s also very unwise governance. You have to gauge your actions and words to not piss off very important groups. Groups he needs to govern well and make the city the best it can be. But the best it can be in his mind is probably the cesspool it was back when he served in the Dinkin’s Administration.

[Lobohan]

@John_Mace

I rest my case…

Unfortunately you haven’t done a great job of making it. So, I’m gonna set aside the verdict and issue cupcakes to the jury.

[Smapti]

@magellan01

The cops here were letting everyone know—everyone—that they disagree with how the Mayor views them. I see nothing wrong with that. They did it in the most respectful way possible. Simply turning their backs to him. If he wants to discipline or fire those that did, he can try. If it were just a few cops, he’d be in a good position to do so. But pretty much the entire police force disagrees with him. And any action he takes will make matters worse. DeBlasio is the one in the weaker position here. He will need to apologize sooner or later. Sooner is better, MUCH better. The cops were skeptical of him when he entered office, and now that skepticism has found justification.

So the police force - an unelected body of paid civil servants - is “skeptical” of the democratically-elected mayor, and has him over a barrel, and you’re OK with that?

And I’m the one who gets accused of supporting a “police state”.

[DSeid]

@Baker

If I was the newly bereaved widow of a police officer I’d tell the department I was making arrangements of my own. My husband’s body belongs to me. I’d not want his funeral to turn into a circus, I’d want it in my church, and be a religious service.

@Loach

It was in his church. It was a religious service. He was training to become a police chaplain. All speakers and the entire ceremony was approved by the family. If they wished for no ceremony there would be none.

It was however turning his funeral into a political statement. And unless this was done with the prior approval of his family it was highly disrespectful and inappropriate to use the funeral as a stage for a political statement.

Dissing the boss? He’s a big boy. They are stupid for doing it and not helping matters but really “mayor gets dissed by city employees” … hardly ranks news at eleven. Abusing the funeral for the sake of dissing the boss? Inexcusable.

[Revenant_Threshold]

@magellan01

You screwed up your analogy. The point was that different individuals—what and black—should view the police as different degrees of threat. You analogy uses the threat inherent with scissors, which is the same threat for everyone.

It isn’t the same threat for kids. And I specified me as a kid. People don’t seem to offer that same advice to me when they see me with scissors as an adult. I think my analogy was fine.

Although I suppose maybe they’re just not as concerned anymore if I get hurt.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

magellan, when Smapti says you’re too soft on the police, you really need to step back and think about your position.

[John_Mace]

@DSeid

It was however turning his funeral into a political statement. And unless this was done with the prior approval of his family it was highly disrespectful and inappropriate to use the funeral as a stage for a political statement.

Dissing the boss? He’s a big boy. They are stupid for doing it and not helping matters but really “mayor gets dissed by city employees” … hardly ranks news at eleven. Abusing the funeral for the sake of dissing the boss? Inexcusable.

Yeah, it’s the disrespect of the family that pings my outrage meter, not the disrespect for the NYC mayor. Any NYC mayor who can’t take a little disrespect now and then should look for a more congenial work environment elsewhere. The mayor was obviously a guest of the family at this event, and some folks felt the need to turn it into a political circus.

[Loach]

@Declan

Yeah, and in that order you need to bring in the state police and the national guard mp battalions, and stand down the entire NYPD. While your thinking a handful is <100, the entire force is going to react as one.

Da Mayor should pick his battles and ignore this one. Not that it really matters, he is a one timer.

Declan

There are 4,600 in the state police. Obviously all of them can not be ordered into NYC since they have their own duties.
National Guard MPs still fall under posse comitatis and can not take over civilian policing.

[grayhairedmomma]

Well, I’m outraged by them turning their back on the democratically elected mayor of New York City. Mayor de Blasio spoke the truth about the realities of the demonstrably accurate fears of African Americans and other minorities when dealing with police in NYC and across the country. And the NYC police department’s response to these accurate fears is essentially “fuck you”.

It is disgusting that anyone is suggesting the Mayor apologize to the police for his comments. In calling for an apology from the Mayor, you are also telling African Americans to sit down and shut up - that we cannot speak out against our mistreatment and that there will be no change. You can pretty it up with all the bullshit you want about “getting along with the police”. But there comes a time when the truth must be stated openly and plainly and that time is now. We, as a country, don’t have the luxury of hiding behind bullshit anymore. Instead of the Mayor apologizing, it is time for all of the good men and women in our police departments to stand up with us.

[ExTank]

Yes, it’s outrageous that a bunch of uppity peasants turn their back on their annointed King.

Beheadings for everyone!

[Smapti]

@ExTank

Yes, it’s outrageous that a bunch of uppity peasants turn their back on their annointed King.

Right, because “paid civil servants voluntarily employed by a democratically-elected government” is completely and totally analgous to “involuntary tenant farmers obliged to provide food for a hereditary monarch”.

[wolfman]

Maybe New York should just do what they did in the old days, just bring in a new load of Irish Cops to crack the heads of the old cops.

[grayhairedmomma]

@ExTank

Yes, it’s outrageous that a bunch of uppity peasants turn their back on their annointed King.

Yes, the police are servants who are allowing themselves to be turned against their rulers, the citizens.

[Lobohan]

@ExTank

Yes, it’s outrageous that a bunch of uppity peasants turn their back on their annointed King.

Beheadings for everyone!

You think expecting respectful behavior in uniform is outrageous? No wonder you’re an “ex” tank guy.

[Count_Blucher]

@doorhinge

Yes, it would be free speech. People would be free to stay home, go to your parade, turn their backs, clap their hands, or do the Hokey Pokey. It will be interesting to see you get 8,000,000,000 New Yorkers to do anything together. But don’t stop dreaming.

Q: Its just not conceivable that in a city which does occasionally have parades down 5th, normal citizens might turn their backs as a group when sections of cops march by?