That was yesterday. Today, Rehavam Zeevi was shot and killed. He was the tourism minister for Israel and is mentioned in the above article. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine said the shooting came as revenge for the killing of its leader, Mustafa Zibri, who died Aug. 27 in a targeted Israeli rocket attack. Israel has said Zibri, widely known as Abu Ali Mustafa, was involved in bombing attacks on Israelis.
Two members of the Israeli parliament were sent letters with powder in them today. Their offices have been evacuated.
If you thought the reaction of the right-wingers was extreme before, imagine what their response to the above two events are going to be. Also, I think this shows the lack of control that Arafat has over all the Palestinian terrorists. All these terrorist actions are NOT helping any sort of Palestinian state action by the US or UK.
It seems Israel is in kind of a quandry. On one hand, they have the US exerting a LOT of pressure to keep quiet/don’t upset the fragile Coalition herd while their neighbors and enemies, knowing this, are taking full advantage. On the other hand, their extreme right wing (and military) is chafing under this and is publicly distancing itself from the government.
This looks to be a classic no win situation for Sharon. Back down to the right-wingers (who will be frothing at the mouth after today’s events) and Israel could break the Coalition and seriously piss off it’s biggest ally (America). Stand up to the right-wingers and risk a full blown power struggle with the military and political radicals such as Netanyahu. Meanwhile, the Palestinans and other local terrorists try to ferment terror and fear in Israel either a) to break the coalition or b)because of less fear of reprisal or c)they hate Israel and are doing what they would normally be doing. What should Sharon do?
I am not going to comment on what Israel SHOULD do. That’s a sticky mess to get into because that is one of the most deeply embroiled convoluted conflicts in history. However, what I think they WILL do is step up action against Palestine. Look for the largest ranging conflict since World War II in the next six months between Israel/Palestine, Kashmir and Afghanistan. Israel doesn’t have a history of bowing to US demands when they are against those demands, and this might be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. I think that Israel and the US are going to be on one side in a really bloody, ugly conflict.
I’m sorry, but what about the Gulf War? When the Iraqis were raining scud missiles down on Israel, what do you think it was that kept them out of the conflict.
The US knew that in order to keep the Coalition together Israel could NOT take any active role in the conflict. I am pretty sure that the US sat down hard on Israel to keep them out of that little soiree. I am positive that Israel wouldn’t have normally taken that sitting down. Hell look at their reactions to the Palestinians.
Sigh.
This situation just had to get worse didn’t it. The world couldn’t be content with one conflict in Afghanistan, they had to inflame the intifada.
Restraint. While “killing them before they kill you” is defensible, it is counter-productive. Capture those who you have credible evidence against, try them and jail them. If you have capital punishment, dole it out, after a trial.
And if you believe that Arafat can delivery on security negotiate through him.
But that’s the if. 'Cos if he really can’t control the violence, as his claim of nonresponsibilty evinces, then why is Israel even bothering talking to him?
Only when you don’t kill all those responsible. If the US didnt run its little hypocritical game by condemning it, the Israelis most likely would have most terrorists dead and have alot less problems. Besides, they have tried restraint. Just after the Disco bombing they didnt respond. Didnt work. Other times they gave advance warning and bombed empty buildings. Didnt work. After Sbarro they took over an office building. Still didn’t help.
What were you recommending - painting a red target on Israeli rear ends?
Capture them? How? By making an incursion into a city which is heavily armed and populated entirely by people who despise you and will give you no help?
Remember that guy who was shooting folks from a tower at the University of Texas. He was killing folks, insisted he would kill more folks and would obviously resist arrest with violence. What did the cops do? What any sane person would do - kill him. This is the exact same situation. A guy who has already killed. Says he intends to kill some more. Will defend himself or be defended from arrest with violent force…The answer is obvious:
Good question. Perhaps they ought not to. But whenever they bring that up they get this vague warning of this being “dangerous talk” from the Palestinians.
In the end though, he is the titular head of the Palestinians. There really isnt anyone else to talk to…
Actually Israel didn’t sit out of the war because we exerted pressure. They stayed out because they knew that it would be bloody ugly if they joined in. But they also said that the moment a single rocket from Saddam killed a single Israeli citizen they would rain hellfire on Saddam. Ironically not a single citizen died as a result of the attacks. Two old men died from heart attacks during the attacks and they were the only deaths.
What should Israel do? Simple. If I were them I would seal the borders and then expell any palestinians (read arabs) in Israel that cause trouble. But who will do all the menial work in Israel? Who cares? If it means that Israelies will have to clean toilets then it sounds to me like a fair trade.
As soon as they open their borders… as soon as they start having discussions with Arafat, the suicide bombings start up again… and Arafat can’t or won’t do anything about it.
Israel has the land… Israel has the money… Israel has the BOMB… they are surrounded by enemies who no matter what anybody says want them driven into the sea. Nothing’s going to change that… nothing. There’s too much blood under the bridge people.
The palestinians lost their homeland in 1948… I’m sorry about that but that’s the deal that was cut. Get over it. Have Jordan give them some free land. If they want their homeland back they should go the UN and have them revoke the charter that established Israel in the first place… since we have a permanent seat on the UN Secutity Council that’s not going to happen… end of story. Next problem?
Ironically Israel has no capital punishment for anyone other than Nazi war criminals. Though, in opposition to what was said further down in the thread, the Israelis HAVE captured people for various purposes before and are pretty good at it. (no cite so disregard if you feel it’s necessary this is just info passed on to me from Israelis I’ve spoken to)
As was said earlier, Israel bothers to talk to him because there really IS no one else. Though Arafat is not as impotent as he claims. And again I cannot provide a cite, because my wife has just translated Arabic articles for me where Arafat is pretty vitriolic in his speeches to other arabs. So many times it is not clear whether Arafat wants peace and is impotent, or is just manipulating the world community while he tries to maintain his position. I personally tend to the opinion that his leadership is tenuous and he probably is trying to placate his people while getting other efforts accomplished, and doesn’t always get that done. However he has a terrorist past and probably knows many of htese people personally. Arafat is an enigma for sure.
Another wonderful technique of Arafat is that he will publicly condemn attacks on Israelis in the world media, but the Palestinian media will be silent or even applaud the attacks. I will provide cites if I can find them. He has done very little in the territories to dissuade militancy, although the atmosphere has changed a lot since September 11th.
I can’t tell if things are getting better or worse – he rounded up activists and suppressed pro-bin Laden rallies (in the process killing a few), but his very own organization, Fatah, carried out a martyrdom operation at the Afula bus terminal that same week. A Palestinian man dressed in an Israeli Army uniform opened fire at random at the bus station, killing a few before he was taken down. Fatah claimed responsibility for the attack, which was the first by Fatah inside the Green Line since the late 1960s IIRC. Today, the news is that he has in theory outlawed all militant wings of organizations. We will have to see if it is just talk or action, though.
In many ways I agree with you, except that Israel has partitioned itself more than any other occupying nation in history, willingly even though it always wins militarily, and if you look at the lands that the Palestinians ask for they are usually of military strategic importance for shelling Israeli settlements.
Arafat had a chance here … not that any expected him to come through … but a chance to prove that the Palestinians were ready to be part of the civilized world … a chance to build trust and force Israel to the table. He blew it.
He could have stated that this attack is condemned and that the perpetrators would be arrested and handed over to the Israeli’s for trial. And done it.
His failure to do so forces even the most dovish to conclude that the Palestinian authority continues to endorse, harbor, and sponsor terrorism.
His failure to do so also puts the United States in a most difficult spot. The US wants to distance itself from Israel right now, as much as it can. At the same time, the US would have to choke on its own hypocrisy, if it condemns a forceful Israeli response to the Palestinian Authority’s harboring of the perpetrators of this act, while it does the same in a very large scale to the Taliban. But IF the US condones an Israeli response, the coalition will be doomed.
Who wants to bet that Israel is sacrificed? Would you like some ketchup with that hypocrisy, sir?
Guin, I totally agree with you on that—————except that we gave Israel a ton of weapons and aircraft. The forces simply aren’t balanced for a “fair” war. And I certianly would not advocate arming Palestine to make it fair.
As far as this situation goes, I think Sharon will have a hard time of it, but I am very skeptical about some sort of coup from the military or anything, as seems to be implied here.
Though Israelis certainly don’t have a love of Palesitinians, they would probably be content if the fucking fighting just stopped; I think, proportionally, the Palestinians are not willing to simply live in peace until they get “their” land back.
I would like to point out that it’s not as simple as you are making it out. Israel was willing to settle on the land that no one wanted, and much of the land that is disputed was BOUGHT from the Palestinians. Now I am not going to say the Israelis are all right and the Palestinians are all wrong. I do see more evidence toward the position that Palestine wants to push the jews out of Israel completely than I see to the contrary. I’d be willing to bet that if there hadn’t been any terrorism in twenty years that Israel would be ruled by both Palestinians and Israelis and that the Palestinians would not be second class citizens there. But I may be wrong.