Suicide Bombing In Israel

The BBQ Pit
1

I understand the argument about “Palestinian” and Israeli territory. And yes, from me putting Palestinian in quotes, you know what side I’m on.

Obviously, these suicide bombers are of the same mentality as those who attacked the World Trade Centre. How is it that Bush can declare a “War On Terrorism” for terrorism on “homeland”, but then tell Sharon to ‘cool his jets’, so to speak, when it comes to terrorism in Israel? COMPLETE BULLSHIT!!!

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, Buddy. Just SHUT THE FUCK UP and mind your OWN FUCKING BUSINESS! Wouldn’t want to think that BUSH would think it was a good idea to go into “another country” and massively attack, destroy the government, kill civilians while he’s at it as a price of war, for the sake of the leader being a “bad man”, WOULD WE? Sound familiar?

The IDF is VERY capable of taking care of business. What stops them? The US says “No, don’t do that”. Why does Israel oblige? Israel depends hugely on US for money, so they obey. Why would you tell Sharon to pull back when he’s being attacked, Mr.Bush, while you go HOG WILD on another country? Americans were under “Bush’s perceived threat of WMD” (and that’s stretching it, but let’s give him the benefit of the doubt for this argument). Israelis are under a real, constant, tangible and historical threat. It’s pure hypocrisy. USA does it, ISRAEL shouldn’t (according to the US). Why is Israeli blood worth less than American blood?

Negotiations have proven time and time again to be futile. Even when hopes grow, and talks are underway, all of the sudden you have another suicide bombing. That’s TERRORISM for the average Israeli citizen. Constant terrorism. Is that OK with you? If the State of New York were under such constant threats, would that be OK with you?

Fuck that shit. If Arafat claims he has “no control” over the “extremists”, then he’s out of control of his “country” ~ then it’s time for someone who has the capability of taking control to do it, if anything to prevent loss of civilian life.

As for the loss of civilian life in such a move would incur, well I have two things to say:

  1. Why be a hypocrite? It’s all about hypocrasy at this point. Why is Palestinian life worth more to you than Iraqi life? It’s not. You killed them for control in the matter, so don’t wag your finger when it happens elsewhere.
  2. Better to lose 1000 lives now to save 50 000 lives later. Do the math.

So I say, once and for all, GET THE IDF IN THERE AND PLOW THEM DOWN. Nothing else has worked, and one more drop of Israeli blood is too much.

2

If you understand that mentality to be “The country that I am striking out against has systematically engaged in economic, military, and political opression against my people for years, and has left me no options other then to lash out against them at the cost of my own life,” then I’ll grant that the mentality is “obvious.”

I agree with this: Bush is hypocritical in telling instructing the Israelis not to engage in counter-terrorism.

Why is Palestinian blood worth less then Israeli blood?

3

Well next time you see an Israeli suicide bomber, go ahead and fight terrorism.

4

Er, is killing people in open military action better than killing via suicide bomber? Because that’s what your kill-em-all approach seems to imply.

5

Terrorist is not a synonym for “suicide bomber.”

6

Definition by MSN Encarta:
Terrorist:
somebody using violence for political purposes: somebody who uses violence or the threat of violence, especially bombing, kidnapping, and assassination, to intimidate, often for political purposes
My mistake. Did you think they were doing it for the promised 72 virgins?

7

But suicide bombing is terrorism, no matter how you look at it (unless you go for that pansy “moral equivalency” argument.)

8

In the same spirit as my OP, “Let Israelis do what Americans do.” I’d be happy if no Palestinian was killed, and we could pull a cowering Arafat out of a hole someday and keep him in Israeli custody after shaving him for public display.

9

If those people want to kill you, or innocent men, women, and children, sure it is.

10

You say “Nothing else has worked, and one more drop of Israeli blood is too much.”

How do you feel about returning the occupied territories in exchange for peace… returning to pre '67 borders? I don’t approve of the Palestinian methods one bit but it’s difficult to ignore why they’re doing it.

11

Israel has been trying to get to the point where something very similar to what you suggest can happen. However, the Israelis have no motivation to negotiate for peace when you have people like Arafat behind the scenes talking out of both sides of his mouth. “Sure, let’s talk peace.” And at the same time, he’s telling his terrorist cohorts “bomb this pizza parlor tomorrow, that bus next week.” The classic case is when Arafat got nearly everything he wanted, including East Jerusalem, Gaza, and I think 98% of the West Bank (the 2% going towards the Israeli settlements which would be relocated to the “green line”). He flat-out rejected this deal and almost immediately afterwards, we saw a spiking of suicide bombings.

All Israel wants is some sort of security from homicide bombings. Is that too much to ask? I do not think that the average Joe Palestinian really cares one way or the other about Israel; they just want to make a living to support themselves and their family.

12

Right–suicide bombers are terrorists, but not all terrorists are suicide bombers. This is one of the many reasons the words aren’t synonyms.

I’ll spell out the logic behind the argument to this point in detail, and give you a chance to replace your last statement with a coherent reply.

You “refuted” my claim that some Israelis engaged in terrorism by saying “The next time you see an Israeli suicide bomber…” The implication was that the Israeli position is somehow superior because they don’t engage in suicide bombings. This is completely non-sensical: A group can commit attrocious terrorist acts by means other then suicide bombings. I replied that “Terrorist is not a synonym for ‘suicide bomber’” incorrectly assuming you’d make the connection that Israel can commit terrorist acts without resorting to suicide bombing. Your brilliant repartee implied that I was somehow saying that suicide bombers weren’t terrorists–this serves to make me look like an evil bastard whilst simultaenously diverting the argument away from your original (completely moronic) position. Have you considered a career in politics?

13

Yeah!!!

Let’s kill more innocents! that’ll learn 'em!!

:rolleyes:

Sometimes I don’t know what will work over there, and I can’t understand why the suicide bombers do what they do.
:frowning:

14

I can only talk about me personally, but I’d be fine with that, except for the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem. However, I don’t think there would be peace if Israel got rid of the Occupied Territories. The Palestinians would just take them and launch more attacks in Israel proper.

15

Even if “those people” who are being killed had no part in the suicide bombings?

16

That would be lovely if it had the slightest chance of working . . . But as long as there is one Jew left alive, there will never be “peace” in the Mideast. Israel is surrounded by nations that make no secret of the fact that they want Israel destroyed and all Jews driven into the sea. The Palestinians have turned down peace offer after peace offer, and schoolchildren throughout the Mideast are taught from infancy that Jews are the devil.

Sadly, there is no solution to the Mideast problem, short of complete mass suicide of all Jews.

17

That’s my understanding as well Abbynormalguy. You mentioned “I do not think that the average Joe Palestinian really cares one way or the other about Israel”. That may be true but unfortunately the TransArab mentality doesn’t appear to agree. I’m afraid they’re never going to be satisfied until Israel is wiped off the map and all the land returned to Arab control. They’ll keep using the Palestinians as a pretext for violence and continue to help fund their activities. The irony is that they’ve historically treated the Palestinians about as well as Israel has.

Captain Amazing, our suspicions are in alignment.

18

The thing is that the very definition of a terrorist implies one that has no country of their own. Pre-1948 Jews and pre-1948 Arabs in Palestine would both be considered terrorists for the acts they committed. But then after with the '48 war, Israel became a sovereign nation and thus any acts that were committed by the Haganah or other official organization was acting on behalf of “The State of Israel.” A state can cause acts of terror, but they cannot by definition commit terrorist acts.

19

Well excuse me for having misunderstood your 8 word sentence which you now make clear in 3 paragraphs.

Then what you are saying is that SUICIDE BOMBING is TERRORISM, but TERRORISM is not necessarily SUICIDE BOMBING. Gotchya. Thanks for the update. I wasn’t talking about that though. But glad you agree that suicide bombing IS INDEED a form of terrorism.

Which gets me back to my original point: Why had GWB declared a “war on terrorism” from one side of his mouth, yet from the other tells Israel not to defend herself?

Furthermore, if you think my original (and withstanding) position is moronic, you haven’t pointed me to a more intelligent way of thinking. You’re wasting time on semantics of a word. It’s like arguing a cat is an animal but an animal isn’t necessarily a cat. No shit Sherlock. If you have nothing less than OBVIOUS to add, don’t dilute the debate.

20

Oooh hurrah, another lets find someone to rant at for the great big fuck up that is the ‘Holy Land’ thread.

What the fuck’s a homicide bombing? Are you saying that if the bomb doesn’t kill anyone, the Israelis don’t mind? The original post was specifically in reference to suicide bombings in Israel which seem to be the main concern, I think that they just want security from bombing . As, of course, do the Palestinians, who get bombed as well.