Small request:
Could promo talk go in spoiler boxes that are labled as being promo-talk-y? Because I’m trying to go promo-free, but I still want to be able to read what everyone else has to say. Please? Thanks.
Quick spoiler tag tutorial: [ spoiler ] starts it and [ /spoiler ] ends it. Get rid of the spaces for actual use.
Angelus is great. Soulless is exactly how he would be described and I like that the writers are willing to go there. I still think Joss should have had him kill Jenny with his human face. With Angelus ME throws around in the worst that it can without getting too much into shock for sake of shock. I especially like in this season Angelus responding to everyone’s expectations, being the monster others are expected and twisting that around when need be.
No specific spoilers. I really liked the episode and bad ass Wes is just great. I like wondering how far he’ll go. The junkie scene gave me a bit of the Shield vibe in a very good way.
I suspect Angelus is playing along right now, giving the voice what it wants. I’m sure he is fuming over being forced like this. As a result I think that he is going to figure out who it is and kill the hell out of Cordelia. Given that Cordy clearly isn’t seeing everything anymore and actually doesn’t seem to be that much of a powerhouse I have my money on Angelus if he takes her by surprise. It would be neat if it seems like the Big Bad is going to be what ever hell spawn she gives birth to but then Angelus wipes 'em and her out and he is the Big Bad. While he has been used as the Big Bad on Buffy he still has more potential as a villian and this is a different context.
Finally as for Wes knowing about Willow being a lesbian we know that Cordy knows (from the ep where Harmony visits) so it may have gotten out to Wes.
I gotta wonder about Andy Hallett-- when you say he’s in the credits, do you mean in the opening title sequence? Because in the episodes I’ve been watching, he’s not. He’s just listed as the first name that pops up on the bottom of the screen while the actual episode is taking place…
Good ep, but I expect major one-bound jackery with the cliffhanger. yawn
Andy Hallett is now in the opening title sequence. For the first time this episode. 'Bout time too.
I have a theory about the cliffhanger. It’s just speculation, but I’ll put it in a spoiler box, because I may wander into preview teritory.
[spoiler]I think Angelus will try to “turn” Faith. That much is obvious. But I don’t think it will work.
My theory is that you can’t vamp a Slayer. After all, they’ve already gort some kind of demon in them as per “Get it Done”. And this demon is all about kicking vampire demon ass. We’ve also seen what happens when you put two demons in one body (“The Dark Age”). One demon get’s it’s ass kicked.
So, a new vamp demon vs. an experienced vampire killing demon? No contest.
I should point out once again that I’m usually wrong about these things.[/spoiler]
Man the difference between Buffy and Angel keeps growing. Another excellent episode, and next week we get Willow action without the horrific Kennedy around. Woo Hoo.
I think David B. has done a great job playing Angelus, although it points out the wooden acting by certain actors on Buffy as of late.
Another strong show, only slowed down by the Gunn/Fred scene which wasn’t very good.
Angelus right now is the big bad, and the Cordy-monster might be playing with fire (and is nervous- trying to set up dumb as a stump Connor to protect her).
I guess with Faith still hurt from fighting the Beast, Angelus finally had a chance against a Slayer (as he regularly got whipped by Buffy).
Honestly, with Angel being this good, I am happy they are winding Buffy up. Its time.
I think that whatever-it-is-Cordy-actually-is made the sanctuary spell affect Connor. So that when “his” baby is born and looks like some bad-ass spiky demon, he thinks he passed the “demon” in him onto it. That way the actual parentage of the fetus (which is prolly The Beast) stays secret.
This is my wild-ass theory.I mean, we already saw that !Cordy can manipulate reality to some extent (i.e. Holographic Soul). So why couldn’t she do that?
elf6c. I agree with your last comment. And maybe it’s happening on purpose? Could it be that ME, now that Buffy is winding down, is putting all their efforts into Angel, boosting ratings, and maybe getting a renewal for a fifth season?
And I still think that having Dushku back, for just a guest spot, serves no real purpose. If the cross-over rule is gone, then Buffy could have gone up to L.A. to kick Angelus’ ass and give the Fang Gang a motivational speach. So the supposed new show, where Dushku is gonna star, might just be made up - ME not wanting to reveal that the spin off with faith is a done deal.
I wish I could remember what I said…
The Gaspode, the “supposed” new show is not made up. The Spike/Faith spin-off was a go-go, and JW was getting the whole thing together when he read the news one morning and saw that Eliza signed on to do a pilot for FOX.
That’s right folks, JW found about the FOX pilot the same way we did.
Rumor is, he’s not happy. Not only does he have to scrap his spin-off idea in favor of a new one, but it looks like he also has to re-write some scenes in 18–as a matter of fact, they are barely wrapping up for 18, like a week after it should be done.
My spec? ED pissed off Joss, she’s going to be dead by the Buffy finale.
Speaking of Fred, a *really[/i[ stupid thing ruined my suspension of disbelief for this episode: Fred’s outfit. I know it’s lame, but costuming is important! It’s the freaking apocalypse, and we’re supposed to think that Fred’s taking the time to curl all of her hair, and then run around (and fight) in a wispy little shirt, flowy little skirt and PLATFORM SANDALS?! Wtf? If I am ever caught up in the Apocalypse, you can bet I’ll be wearing servicable, and likely dirty, clothes.
Anyway.
Strong episode overall, although I felt that the fight scenes went on rather a long time (I am an exposition girl, not so much a fighting one). I thought the Faith shower scene, where she puches out the tiles, was very strong. And Connor making faces in the mirror, trying to see his demon essence, was hilarious, and the only time I’ve felt a spark of sympathy for him (and his taser line was funny, too). I can’t wait to get the full backstory on Cordy. I’m definitely in the “came back wrong” camp. I think it’s her – I don’t think she’s still bored and frustrated on a higher plane – but there’s something deeply amiss. And I want to know who caused it.
Are we agreed that whatever is speaking when Cordy was talking to Angelus with the orange thing was… well… a demon fetus? I mean, it did say that it was somewhere soft and warm…
Also: Angelus has a known body count now, right? Mr. Shopkeeper (I know Angelus says something about “you made me lose my shopkeeper” but I didn’t actually see what happened to him)
—Could promo talk go in spoiler boxes that are labled as being promo-talk-y? Because I’m trying to go promo-free, but I still want to be able to read what everyone else has to say. Please? Thanks.—
No prob: though I should say that the promo didn’t actually give anything away (if you saw last nights ep already at least, you know that it could mean just about anything): it was just stupid.
I think the team put together for Angel just seems to have more interesting stories to tell and seem to be more willing to take big plot risks. Further, as a whole, the actors on Angel seem to be doing a better job. This may be because they are getting better lines and direction to some extent.
Buffy has seemed lifeless since the move to UPN. The life as the big bad cast a paul over the show that it (IMHO) has never overcome. Also the loss of Giles has had a much bigger impact then expected. The so-called romances (Buffy-Spike/Wood, Xander-Anya and sigh Willow - Kennedy) are lifeless and seemingly either go nowhere, or improbably swing wildly from writer to writer.
The feeling that there was a plan and a critical eye being paid was lost. I personally think it was because Joss was distracted by Firefly (and all the craziness Fox put them through), Ripper, the stupid cartoon idea, the DVD’s, and all of the other irons on the fire. Quality control kind of went out the window. For every great episode, we got 3 “Meh” episodes and 2 stinkers.
Add in the horrible SITs, the truly terrible Kennedy, Anya barely getting used, Dawn as an afterthought, too many Buffy speechs, way too much Spike in peril, and even I start to wonder.
Last season was not a fluke, it was a trend. Time to turn out the lights. 
I actually have this spinoff fantasy in which a certain bleached-blonde vampire with a soul from another Buffyverse show does a season as a recurring character on Angel, then starts the next season as a regular, then, oops, Angel has an accident with a sharp stick, then the vampire with a soul who’s actually an interesting character moves center stage and gives the phenomenal supporting cast a real actor to play off of.
Never happen, though.
That’s the nice thing of having an extra vampire with a soul-- you have a back-up in case you break the original version. 
Besides, everyone knows the break-out character from Buffy will be Clem. He, Dawn and Andrew will drive around in van solving mysteries. 
I just want to second this. My efforts to avoid spoilers for both shows has already been screwed up because I can’t tell which spoiler boxes are for real spoilers, and which are spoilers for the show we’ve all already seen. Once again, do we really need to use spoiler boxes in the thread when it says “Spoilers” in the thread title? Can we just 'effing agree that if you haven’t seen this weeks show, don’t open the thread yet, and then save the spoiler boxes for information that might actually spoil future shows?
Or, we could just label future episode spoilers.
I like the current system of being able to read the comments about the episode without getting the plot points.
I’d like to, Miller, but as long as one single doper wants spoilerboxes, I’ll extend the courtesy, as I get the episode about 32 hours before it airs in the US. However, I never get the promos, so my boxes only contain info on the episode mentioned in the thread title. I want to be spoiler free too.
[OT] So what’s the deal with this Kennedy that everybody seems to loathe? I haven’t watched much BtVS lately so I don’t know what’s going on with her. I did however catch a glance one night and I remember Kennedy being some SIT who has a thing for Willow.[/OT]
I’m not sure either, but I think the Shopkeeper crawled away while Angelus was distracted by The Voice. Of course, Angelus probably found and killed him before Faith and Wes showed up.
Maybe Fred is one of those people who has all her best ideas in the shower?