Angel 03/05/03 - Salvage (spoilers)

Well worth waiting for!

Got the ep a little late and since it’s close to 1 a.m. here, just some quick notes. Since Faith is in the promo, it can’t be a spoiler for anyone that she shows up this episode. And geez, seeing her again makes me sad that there won’t be a Faith - The Vampire Slayer spin off. She positively ignites my computer screen*


  • No explanation to why Cordy is evil. But that last episode got me thinking. So much of what bothered me this season make perfect sense with her being bad. Angel has really been twice as clever this year, as compared to Buffy.
  • More good misdirections in this episode.
  • Great, GREAT fight scenes. Wire fighting and Faith takes a very serious beating.
  • When we first see her in jail, another inmate comes after her with the same type of knife the bringers use. It’s nice that ME is trying to tie up loose ends. Even if it’s not happening in Sunnydale.
  • At one point Angelus calls Sunnydale. No on screen crossover, but at least there is a connection shown, within the Buffyverse.
  • And again. Dushku brings something to the show, I didn’t know was lacking. Fun maybe. And sex. And she tells Connor who’s the boss and stops his juvenile whining. A big Hooray for that.

AngelScore: five-by-five.

  • I’d do her without hesitating, so maybe that’s why I’m raving. She’s the epitome (or embodyment, :D) of what I like in a woman. Apart from when she was really evil, that is.

Computer screen? You’re burning you eyes out watching all this stuff on a computer?

I made the poor decision to glance at spoilers for this show, and I’m pretty much spoiled for the next three episodes, which kind of sucks, because often when that happens I get in a mode where I’m just hoping things will happen faster and faster to get to, or hint at, things I don’t know already.

Though, as I noted, this once worked to incredible effect when I misremmembered the spoiler I read for the ep that was mostly all a dream.

Apos -
I’m just too impatient to burn the file to a cd and watch it on my tv. It’s a 17" TFT, though, so no worries.

The pregnancy is made official (to us viewers) and Cordy claims Connor to be the father. She shows her belly, too.

I’m wondering though, with the beast dead, what obstacles will keep the arc going? And where’s Skip?

YAY! I’m spoiled! :smiley:

Gorgon This episode or future ones?

This one. I’ve never paid any attention to Angel spoilers before and I’m not sure I really want to this season as it is just sooo good, but hey.

I’ve been looking forward to this for three weeks, so I just couldn’t help myself.

I’m already getting excited.

Skipped the spoilers, and just wanted to say-- New Episode, with Faith!! Woo Hoo !!!

I already knew anyway, but I would like to point out that not everybody watches the previews (I don’t) so please don’t assume everything in them isn’t a spoiler.

Very good ep though, I agree.

Interesting. Aside from Faith’s return, I didn’t much care for the episode.

[spoiler]I mean, come on, here is a great opportunity for a wild three-way death match between Angelus, Faith and the Beast – and Angelus offs him in one, effortless poke? Not treacherous, not particularly sneaky, not worthy of Angelus’s viciousness. Just “we’re done with your character now, 'bye.” And the method was just as weanie as Angel’s fantasy about the “magic sword.” Total anti-climax as far as the Beast was concerned.

And I still hate all plots involving Connor. To me, Connor is to Angel as Adric was to Dr. Who.[/spoiler]


But it’s been listed on IMdB since August. It’s in the promos. In fact, they sell it with the tag line “Faith is back”. I think it’s been on E!, TV guide and a lot of other places. So I thought it might be fairly safe to say that this is in fact the episode where she returns.

And, as Charisma Carpenter stated: “We’ve worked together for years off and on, and she’s going to be a big fat star. And let’s just talk about her eyelashes for a minute–wench!”. She really brings star quality to the show. I just couldn’t help myself, being so excited. Sorry. This cements my opinion that Ats is doing a better job this year. Hopefully BtVS shapes up for the final arc.

Promos, IMDB, E!, TV Guide, all spoilers. :slight_smile:

Don’t worry about it, anyway. You’re right - Angel is way better this year.


[spoiler] When I first saw it, I thought it was good. I didn’t expect it at all. And I can see Angelus not wanting to play 2nd fiddle to the Beast, let alone 3rd to the - for him unknown - Big Boss.

But then I started thinking along other lines. Is it Angelus? Or is it Angel playing Angelus. The way ME works, it wouldn’t surpirise me. We’ve not actually seen Angelus kill someone. With Lilah, he could have just smeared som blood on the mouth. Acting Angelus got him close to the Beast. Maybe just a wild idea.
It doesn’t really work out with the soul, since he couldn’t have taken it. But he knows that “the Answer is among you” and he knows it isn’t him.

However - with the Beast gone (nice fx though) - what obstacles will our heroes have to face now? Angelus, if it’s the evil one for real, is not much of a match for Faith. And Cordy… though pulling the strings and playing the Angelettes against each other, can’t do much on her own.
And what is it that she’ll give birth to? It was certainly hinted that the pregnancy was progressing more rapidly than normal.

Gah. I’m itching for spoilers, cause it’s hard to wait. But I don’t want it ruined, so 'll stay away.


[spoiler]Actually, I was thinking that maybe Angel is really Angel, but… nah! Cordy wouldn’t have let him get his soul back.

I want to see Angelus really, really be evil and not so helpful – bringing back the sun and all.

Either way I was disappointed with the ease of the Beast’s demise – though parts of his fight with Faith were very cool. She seems to be able to take a bigger pounding than Buffy. I still wanted to see some serious heroics to kill the Beast.[/spoiler]

Yeah. Wow. They managed to bring Faith back betterthan ever. She is still the same person, but more mature and understanding of what she wants and needs to do.

Theh bit with Angelus and the Beast - not nearly so bad as y’all made me think. It made sence and he wasn’t sure it would work to begin with.

All-in-all … so very cool. Faith is much cooler than she used to be, and in this season’s Angel … amazing.

great ep.

I also thought that Angel was deep undercover as Angelus, but after reading what you said about Cordy, you’re right, Eats_Crayons. D’oh!
I am hating, hating, hating this pregnancy arc. That little “twist” struck me as enormously grating and stupid. Just MHO.
Also, I just have to say that Faith is a much better fighter than Buffy. Again just MHO. I guess I just like the way she tends to lash out and use her energy conservatively. Buffy’s style is flowing, I guess she’s using the whole judo thing with momentum, but much of the time it strikes me as pointless noodling around. Despite being a total BtVS fanatic, sometimes I find myself actually channel-surfing through the fight scenes, as if they were commercials. When I was watching Faith kick ass (and then get hers kicked- man did that look brutal), I just felt pumped. Exhilarated. Woo.


I liked this as well. The only reason the First would have for trying to take Faith out - and activating one of the potentials in the process - is if it had some reason to think Faith might interfere in its plans somehow. After all, an experienced Slayer and an inexperienced Slayer are easier to deal with than two experienced ones, but there’s no reason to risk it all if the risk’s not worth it. This means the First knows what’s going on in L.A., and of course it does because it’s the First Evil, duh!

Which means the First might have specifically chosen this period in time to set up shop in Sunnydale as it knew the Fang Gang (Whom Buffy would surely call in to help against such a serious threat if she had any sense in her head.) would be otherwise occupied.

If only they took the time to acknowledge this on the Buffy end. Some mention of the Sun being blocked out and the rain of fire, a small acknowledgement of the fact that asking for Angel’s help would make sense, but just isn’t possible because of what’s going on in L.A.

Is that too much to ask for?

Apparently. [/spoiler]


Angelus taking out the Beast, helpful though it may have been, makes sense to me. As he said to the Beast before, he’s his own man. He takes orders from no one, especially not someone’s flunky. He fought the Beast before as Angel and knew the thing couldn’t be hurt by any normal means. He also knew that as long as he doesn’t kowtow to the Beast and its boss, a showdown between the two was inevitable, one where the Beast wouldn’t hold back, one where Angelus had no guarantee of winning and could very well end up dead.

By killing the Beast he helps himself in the long run. He didn’t know the knife would actually kill the Beast, but it was worth the risk. Even if it didn’t work, Angelus knows that he’s safe from the Beast as long as its boss still thinks they might be able to convince him to cooperate in their plans.

Since it did work, well, Angelus clearly didn’t know until afterwards that killing the Beast would bring back the sun, without which he’d have been able to finish off Faith easily enough after the beating the Beast gave her.

Sure, it seems like a cheap way to kill the Beast after all its done, but to look at it another, the Beast sucked and now its dead. Time to move on.[/spoiler]

I think the way the Beast died was fine. I mean come on the damn thing was established as nigh invulnerable and the it was able to hurt itself makes sense and Angelus got it right in the spine. That and the line “Damn killing it actually does bring the sun back? I thought that was just Angel’s retarded fantasy.” more than made up for any potential lameness in the death blow.
As for Cordy’s baby I’m fairly sure that it is the Beast’s. Given that she demanded some sugar from it.
Also as for the cross-over, and the current lack of any knowledge in Sunnydale about the unpleasantness in LA, there has not been anything to synch up the shows until tonight. When the call comes or is mentioned on Buffy we will have an approximation of the relative timing. Which will then allow us to complain about the lack of knowledge of a whole city without the sun and that has had fire rain on it.

I liked the episode. Faith’s fight scenes are always nice to watch and Faith is a great character. Too bad there won’t be a Faith spin-off.

Geat episode.

[spoiler]I’m just wondering why they thought Faith would be a better chioce than Buffy to help capture Angelus.Sure Angelus never gave up on Faith but Buffy and Angel have history together. They were lovers. I would think that Buffy would have been a better choice.

I know it is done that why because they are on different networks and there are some rules about crossovers and such but at least they could have done more than just the phone call to Sunnydale.

And just where is the real Cordy? Still up in paradise screaming her head off? Or is this the real Cordy and she just got twisted by TPTB? I am dying to know.[/spoiler]

Some nice moments:

  • Vamp during Faith’s first fight recognizing the slayer and high-tailing it.
  • Faith schooling Conner.
  • Angelus’s phone call. “It’s the other one.” :slight_smile: And I guess this puts to rest a discussion I’ve seen about whether or not Angel “remembered” Dawn. Guess those monks were thorough.

Although I wonder if they’re going to have the call from the BtVS side. <quick check of next week’s TV listings. Ooo! “Him!”> Guess not for a while.

Can’t wait to see what ME has in store for Faith for the next few eps, plus her (and some others from the Angel gang if rumors are to be believed) on BtVS.