Angel - Peace Out

Oh, heck. The whole thing’s going in a spoiler box.

Duuude. I stand by my assesment of Angel being better than Buffy. There were so many bits that could have been lame, but weren’t. There were so many bits that could have been not cool, and were. And even before we see what will happen to Caleb/TFE, I nominate all from the slitting of the stitches to the squishing of the slimy skull to be the bad-assedest death scene for a villain ever.

Things that could have sucked, but didn’t:
The mini-demon that provided running commentary during the fight, and his end.
Angel’s dialogue with Jasmine before/during the fight.
Both were more or less blatant oppertunities for random dialogue, but (IMHO) it worked.
The pacing. When Conner was starting to stand up to Jasmine, I thought, ‘He’s going to betray her next ep in a big showdown.’ I was 1/3rd right.

WAGs: Conner went off to check on Cordy.
Lilah was TFE, come to brag that there won’t be world peace, mwahahah. Angel and Co. will blow her off to go get Cordy. TFE will be pissed that she is being ignored. We will get some cryptic clue about next week’s Buffy, which will end up being a homage to the Misderection Fairy.

Yeah. Ok. Having just watched it, all I can say as to the end is, “Derrrr.”

Damn what a good show. They pulled another trick outta their hats, and I’m firgin’ stunned.


That I didn’t see coming AT ALL. And Dang, why is AtS so much more cohesive than BtVS?

Lilah!!! OMG! Now didn’t Wolfram and Hart have a post-death clause in everyone’s contract? Then she wouldn’t be TFE, just newly reincarnated Lilah evil. Just my thoughts!

Nice ending.

I’ll use the spoiler box, as the West Coast hasn’t seen it yet (but why would they be reading this thread?)

[spoiler] Conner’s soliloqy was quite good. For the first time I really felt for the guy. Don’t know if it was the actor or the lines, but that was a good scene. And folks were right, he saw her as maggot breath the whole time, just didn’t care.

The scenes in the bug dimension were OK, kinda tired of champion fights big baddy, eventually ends up with the head. But the cutting of the stitches was good.

Some cryptic remarks by Jasmine about the other Powers. Does that mean she’s a renegade PTB? Kinda like Q? I guess Conner still had power over her. Loved the shot of her tossing the car at Angel.

Great work by Gunn on the cell door. “Never give up! Never Surrender!” I guess he watched the movie.

Overall a good episode, ending the prime plotline before the season finale, so they can throw something new into the mix. Good story telling.

Another great episode! I agree with everything robertliquori said, but I am hoping they don’t do a crossover type show for the last episode of the season, leaving the resolution to take place on BtVS. I have avoided Buffy all this season because of the severely declining quality of that show. Plus, I really like Lilah and it would be awesome if she is really back and not just TFE.

but what I really want to know is…

How was Connor able to just punch through Jasmine’s head like that? :confused: Angel had just landed several punches on her to minimal or no effect. Was it something to do with Connor being her father? Kind of like the FG were speculating that Jasmine couldn’t hurt Cordy, but maybe Cordy could hurt Jasmine. Anybody got a different explanation?

Well I’m glad that this episode explained the begining of last night’s Buffy. Suddenly that makes more sense.


Doesn’t it?

Connor and Cordy tethered Jasmine to this world. Powers aren’t supposed to be incarnate and so they play by all sorts of rules. Jasmien was betting on Connor’s love of her and turned out ot be wrong.
This episode just blew me away. Everything was great. The big fight was mostly to hear the commentary, after that it was off stage and he gets spit out right after Jasmine has enthralled the world. He sent the world screaming into chaos and then Jasmine decided to end it all.
I’m really interested in seeing how it all comes together and closes for this season. Just great stuff.

Bishamon I had thought that as well but it didn’t seem like last night’s exodeus was a pilgramage. On the other hand it would be interesting if they were drawn to LA without realizing why. Sunnydale feels corrupt and LA feels perfect, a sort of subliminal Jasmining.

I was thinking more along the lines of a riot after Sunnydale saw her true face like LA did.

But we do know for sure that Jasmine really is Cthulhu now. :smiley:

Yeah. Looks like we never will get to see her in Great-Old-One mode. Shame. Jasmine with tentacles…rrRRrr…

And I think it’s a clear case of Jasmine’s power not affecting Conner at all. He loved her because she was lovable even sans spell. Remember, she did sincerely want to help everyone. She only had the power over Conner that he gave her. When he took it away, SQUISH.
Was it just me, or did Conner say “Previously, on Angel” this time? If so, might he be being set up to die?

I’m really curious what the next 2 eps will be. I’m expecting them to be all falling action and dealing with characters, because you really can’t top this ep action-wise.

Also, I’d like to see a 4-way battle between Glory, Jasmine, and Caleb, and Anya, for the squishies and to see who would win. The Jossverse really needs a standard scale of physical prowess.

Also, has anyone else noticed that Fred’s stint as being hunted and abandoned by the group seemed to give her superpowers?

Why not? It did work for Westley.

I thought there was only one episode remaining.

Anyway I think that it is safe to pop out of spoiler boxes at this point.
I think that Conner had to be somewhat part of the Jasmine crowd because he linked with the others, she could call him mentally, she spoke through him and absorded his pain. However I don’t think he was ever fully able to give himself over to her. I suspect this is because he’s her father and as such has power over her. He couldn’t surrender that power and that ensured that parts of him were always beyond her reach.

One plot hole though, Angel remarks to Jasmine that she eats people. But there’s no way he could have known that.

Also, I haven’t really been watching Angel since the first season, and I can’t remember that one too well. can someone please briefly explain who that was at the end?

That could be a plot hole, but it could also be that people under Jasmine’s spell were well aware of everything going on around them, but viewed everything Jasmine did as good. They would watch groups of people would go into Jasmine’s room and never be seen again, but couldn’t imagine there being anything wrong. Once out from under her spell, the knowledge that people had been going into Jasmine’s room and never coming out might have been enough to lead Angel to the reasonable conclusion that she was eating them.

He knows that her name is “the devourer” though…

Quite an end to a great arc. I especially liked how Jasmine wasn’t played as simply pure evil revealed with no redeeming qualities. She was evil, but she really was going to make the world a better place, at a price. And as much as Angel is right about people needing to be able to make choices, he really has to ask himself now what HE chose, and the repercussions of it.

Connor is a real loose end though. It’s been rumored that Spike WONT be on Angel next season unless a regular leaves Angel (not enough money!) However, he has a lot of issues. I seriously thought that what the gang in the hotel had gasped at, and what they were trying to tell Angel, was that Connor had killed Cordy (and brought her body back to the hotel), because that was the only way to make Jasmine vulnerable. I meann, his deadly punch was startling… but also a little weird, and the fact that Wes went through the whole “she needs Cordy to be safe… if only we could wake her up…” only to have that plotline (apparently) never go anywhere… that was odd too.

I know a bit about the finale, and I’m really intrigued. I don’t think I’m spoiling anything by saying that it will take the show in a new direction: both in terms of locale, aims, and even morality.

The narrative of the show is superb, and I’m forgiving anything that doesn’t fit perfectly. The bug guys running away when Angel showed that orb thing, for one. It was a a little cheesy, but it didn’t bother me. So it turned out the cliffhanger of last week, wasn’t really a cliffhanger after all. It was just misdirection. But I don’t care, because what happened next was so much more interesting than Angel fighting a legion of bug guys.

Same with the fight with the Keeper. There was no unnecessary exposition there. We know Angel can fight. And we’ve seen him go up against these type of monsters many tyimes before. Once the priest was dead, cut and no more reason to show Angel fighting the Keeper. What kept the narrative going was the commentaries by the priest about Angel and Connor. And little by little, we learn new things, we get another piece of the puzzle.

And there was no reason for a big end fight in the last episode (which is next), because the arc lives on its own merits, without a spectacular finale. Connor just killed Jasmine, because she and her issues were not important. What is important, is Connar and Angel, Connor and Cordy, and mainly the choices we make and the repercussions from them. Great, great storytelling.

Vincent Kartheiser is really doing a great job, with an impossibble character. Connor thoroughly rubs me the wrong way, but not from sloppy writing (as with Kennedy on BtVS), but because he’s supposed to rub me the wrong way. When he was in church, talking to sleeping beauty, he wasn’t just rambling and doing exposition to show the whiney teen we love to hate. The speach moved the arc forward to.

Very good, very smooth. Everything just played out so nicely. I’m amazed at the amount of stuff they got into 39 minutes of television, without feeling rushed or contrived.

I’m jazzed about next week and surely hope it’s not just a setup for Angel to go to Sunnydale.

However, they must totally lack electronic communication on Sunnydale, since no signs of Jasmine worship has been visible. That’s a problem for that franchise, though, and nothing to do with Angel.


I also loved this ep. Now THAT’S the way to show a pissed-off Big Bad! It seems like people get punched through the air every five minutes, so much so that the “holy crap” part of it goes away. If every baddie on the block can make someone fly back five feet, it’s not impressive. Jasmine’s punch and car toss, on the other hand, were far more indicative of her strength. I wish the fight had been longer, though. Also, it would have been interesting to have Caleb as the servant of Jasmine, but that’s also partially my wanting to save a cool villian before the end (either of them).

Wow. [Kang and Kordos] Holy Flurking Snhit! [/Kang and Kordos]

What an episode! Even Conner was good. Plenty of twists, everything made sense, everyone had lines that mattered, and the story really rang true for me. The pacing, writing, acting and direction were great. Reminds me of Season 3-4 Buffy.


Apos if you want to hint about the finale can you use a spoiler box please? Thank you.


I think the idea that Cordy had some kind of power over Jasmine, and could hurt her, was an indication that Connor could also hurt her. After all, he is her parent too. At the time, Wes did not even consider that Connor would help them, so he focused on getting Cordy’s help, but I immediately thought it was foreshadowing for Connor being able to hurt her.


I’ve really like this whole Jasmine story arc. But this episode was everything I was afraid it would be. Jasmine takes the cliche villain role and just holds the good guys hostage while Angel breaks her spell by punching another demon a whole lot.

Afterwards was pretty cool. Jas’s talk with Angel was really nice and I loved the shot of Gina Torres picking up an SUV. Even Connor was pretty good. But on the whole I feel let down.

One of the good things about Angel is that the character provided information can be wrong, or incomplete, but still useful to the viewers. Wes realizing that Cordy can hurt Jasmine cements the role of her parents as anchor for us while it gives the FG a goal.

Trion I agree the way the arc closed was typical but I think that’s a strength of the series. They can play cliches straight but very well and as a result they can resolve arcs and set up for new ones quickly while still being entertaining. I do agree however if you really wanted a unique ending to the arc the episode would dissapoint. I’m curious as to what sort of thing you would have liked to see.

Well, call me crazy, but I don’t think that an arc that’s lasted all season should be resolved quickly or typically. I’d be willing to give them one, but not both.

As for what I would like to have seen - how about giving the characters a greater understanding of who or what Jasmine is and breaking her spell based on that. Something that requires more brains than brawn. Hell, even the magic mcguffin (“we need her TRUE NAME”) was hardly novel.

Don’t get me wrong. Like I said, I enjoyed the discussion of the different viewpoints between Angel and Jasmine after the fact. It shows that the writers were actually thinking about the characters. I just wish we could have gotten to that point in a way that was more creative than “Angel punches another demon until he gets the secret weapon”.