Angel 4/15

Um, did anyone else have an idea about the ending? I mean, it pretty much came out of the blue, and what Angel was saying kinda implied that he was Angelus. Or was I missing something?

I thought Fred stepped up quite a bit in this ep, and clearly Gunn and Fred are getting pretty tight.

Angel wanted to make sure that Wesley knew that it was Angel and not Angelus attacking him. He wanted him to know that it wasn’t a soulless demon having cruel fun killing him but an angry father mudering the man responsible for taking his son away. If he had reverted to Angelus he probably wouldn’t have bothered with that and he wouldn’t have had an outburst. Angel is much more emotional and far less calculating than Angelus who doesn’t have that pesky soul giving him human mental traits. I like how Joss led us to believe that Angel was taking a step towards becomming a more noble man and then had him react like a lot of people would. I would have been somewhat surprised if Angel fully forgave Wesley but I was definitely not expecting an outburst like that.

Even though I read the wildfeed before I saw the show, it was still a bit of a shock. Poor Wesley, he just can’t seem to catch a break. I got the impression that Angel wanted Wesley to know that it was “Angel” speaking, not “Angelus”, and therefore lull Wesley into a false sense of security. Fred did show a little backbone in this episode, finally.

I don’t think it’s Angelus.

However, I don’t think it’s Angel, either. He obviously lost it somehow, and was not being rational AT ALL. If he was, he would have snapped Wesley’s neck, put on his game face, beaten off the orderlies.

Three orderlies managed to pull him out of the room. Yeah right.

My theory is that he somehow lost it emotionally (whether artifically imposed on him or otherwise) and the result was something like what he was like when he got back from Hell in Season 3 of Buffy.

Man, that was one dark creepy episode, bordering on the unpleasant. I’d say Angel’s path towards redemption has taken some major detours.
As an aside, remember the thread on how all the good guys on Fox’s 24 used Apple Computers? Anyone notice the Apple monitor on Lila’s desk at Wolfram and Hart? I think Joss is having his little joke…

Nice with the drool.

He got the best of both-got to murder Wes(ok, failed, but still had his fun) and gets to keep him around for much future guilt and angst and all that fun Angel-y stuff.

Hey Wes, maybe you can just lie on the floor and gag a while

No, Angel was very in control for most of the episode. He handled and dispatched the other participants in the kidnapping relatively easily, especially the Wolfram and Hart employess. He had experience handling them.

However, he had no experience handling a betrayal the magnitude of Wesley’s.

I don’t know WHAT to think. Granted, instant and complete forgiveness would be hard to believe, but the intensity of the anger, the determination to harm Wes, that seemed a little unbelievable now that Angel knows why Wes took Conner.

If someone kidnapped my child, especially someone who claimed to be close to me, because they were convinced I was going to kill that child, and didn’t discuss it with anyone beforehand, I would probably be just as psychotic as Angel was shown to be.
Probably more.

Chris W

I was shocked by the ending but then I thought about it a bit. Wesley see’s “The father will kill the son.” in some dusty old tomes, and decides to steal Conner from Angel. End result, Conner is gone “forever”. Conner, who gave Angel enormous joy, the apple of his eye, is gone, all because Wesley was duped by a PHONY prophecy. Why did I expect Angel to be all kissy-kissy and make up with Wesley?

This was a fantastic episode, and well worth the wait. I’m dying to see next week’s. I think Angel is showing itself to be one of the best shows on the air.

Wes isn’t really to blame if you think about it. Sajahn is the one who changed the prophecy. Here’s another thing if Angel can come back from hell then Connor can come back from whatever dimesion he’s in. I can see where Angel was coming from in the end.

Wes’s only mistake was not leaving a note saying why he took Connor away or talking with Angel about it. Well of course singing infront of Lorne probably didn’t help much either. I can see why Wes didn’t tell Angel though. He had been having nightmares about Angel killing Connor. He was afraid if he told Angel what was going to happen that it would only speed the prophecy.

I beleive The Tim said it best. And Angel is just annoying. Sajahn should have killed him.

Wesley should have known better, anyway. If it was a true prophecy then by interfering he would have only become part of the story. By trying to protect Conner from Holtz, he became the one who delivered him.

Angel’s right to be mad, though maybe not murderously mad. He let those orderlies drag him off, I think.

Perhaps I’ve forgotten something from previous episodes (it’s been so long, after all), but why was it originally prophesied that Angel would kill Sajahn?

OK, pardon previous post. I hit the wrong key and damn, those posts go in fast. I don’t keep up with a lot of the ephemera in Angel and Buffy. If someone (and I know you’re out there) could either tell me who or what Sajahn specifically is (I missed a little of last night where we see Sajahn become elemental) and if there’s any reason why Angel might pose such a threat to him, I would be appreciative.

Wrong. Prophecies can be averted, ie Prophecy Girl.

brondicon, Sajahn read a prophecy saying that the son of the vampire with a soul was to kill him. Therefore, he had nothing against Angel, that was all a front. He really just wanted to get Connor out of the way.

The original prophesy was that Angel’s son would kill Sajahn. The “why” is never mentioned, and I don’t think that really mattered to Sajahn, or at least he’s not telling. The actual quote gave a little wiggle room, and I wonder if Holtz, through the the female vamp killer and the collection jar actually killed Sajahn, and since they were “sired” by Angel. But it’s actually not clear that Sajahn has been killed yet.

Thanks all, now the final scene makes sense, at least from a script sense. That was Angel, not Angelus, got it. But I have to say, my first thoughts were that Angel thought he was being watched and had to act like that for some hidden audience. Not sure why I thought that, but I did.

Assuming my flight of fancy is just that, this could be a long dark time in the show. I still don’t get why Angel didn’t want to contact Cordy. Are his feelings for her happiness more important than his concern for getting his son back? I don’t think anything will be resolved until she gets back (and hopefully loses Gru).

My thoughts are that Angel by trying to kill Wesley reacted in an understandable, human, albeit quite-a-bit-less-than-heroic -and-noble, fashion. People with souls have been known to go into murderous rages, especially when they feel betrayed by someone close to them kidnapping their son.

We know from Buffy-Angel verse history that you “shouldn’t always believe what you’re foretold”, so Wes was wrong to assume that his only course of action was to kidnap Connor to save him from Angelus and evade the prophecy. Wes should’ve confided in the group, or in any one of them, or Angel himself, rather than take such a drastic step all on his own. Sure, what Wes did was brave, but it was also stupid.

Of course, by all rights Wes should’ve bled to death in the park too, but I’m glad that didn’t happen.

All that, and I miss Cordelia. Tell the lovely Ms. Chase to finish up her movie shoot and get her back on “Angel” where she belongs.

Angel explained that he didn’t want to call Cordy because he didn’t want to put her through the distress that would come of knowing Connor was gone, when he thought he could have Connor back by the time she returned.

Besides, what could she have done?

Thanks, LaurAnge and Telemark.
And that little girl in the White Room scared the piss out of me. She ought to team up with Danny from The Shining.