Angel 1/14/04: Worst Whedon episode ever?

I thought it was a great ep. I thought Tamika just coming out and telling Harmony that she was setting her up was a bit contrived, but the chopstick-fu more than made up for it. And the camel was just priceless. Harmony actually didn’t eff that one up, the caterers delivered it on the wrong day. Her only mistake was not checking with Angel on the matter, but Gunn probably could have filled him in. I thought the way he treated Harmony after she explained that camel meat was a delicacy, and the ritual for slaughtering the beast, was apalling.

I think that part of the reason this episode worked for me was that the writer/s had Harmony’s character down pat. The woman is shallow and not very intelligent, and to tell you the truth, I don’t think she ever did have a soul. And she is shaping up into a quite competent secretary- a job that requires a certain amount of skill, but not a lot of intelligence. Which actually makes her that much more impressive in this episode. She actually managed to get her brain working enough to do research on the customs of the two demon clans, and to figure out that she was being set up as not only a murderer, but also as the one who would wreck the chances of the demon summit being successful, and how it was being done. The only thing she got wrong was the who of it. But through it all, she was still the same ditzy Harmony we all know and, erm, well, know.

I’m kind of getting the impression that they’re trying to put Harmony into the position of BtVS S5 Spike- soulless, basically evil, but trying to do the right thing, and of course going about it in completely the wrong way. They haven’t really established her motive yet for going “off the human stuff”, which actually kind of bothers me. She doesn’t have the chip/being hoplessly in love with the main character combination.

I never really liked Harmony as a human character,possibly because she is the embodiment of about a half-dozen girls who made my life miserable in junior high school, but as a vampire, she has really grown on me. Incompetent and evil makes for much hilarity.(Let’s face it, it’s adorable).

I’m really not liking the way Spike is being written this season. The writers seem to be negating the development the character went through on the last season of “Buffy”. I think in large part it’s because they’re trying to play up the antagonism between Spike and Angel- both vampires are coming off as complete jerks in their interactions with one another, but Spike actually seems to be regressing. I would think that he would have more respect for Buffy than to use his relationship with her to goad Angel. I’m sure there are plenty of other ways he could get under Angel’s skin. He’s really only a jerk when Angel is around. He’s friendly with Gunn, almost affectionate with Fred (for obvious reasons, and I’m still shipping Spinnifred, but I don’t see it happening this season. Maybe next year…) and though his relationship with Wesley is strained, there seems to be some respect there. I think the writers could be handling the antagonism between the two vampires without having them both come of as complete assholes. I’m really getting the feeling that they just haven’t figured how to integrate him into the cast, and they don’t really seem to be trying.

I’m really bugged that Lorne seems to have been put on the back burner this season. He had become my favorite character on the show last season, and now, aside from “Conviction” and “Life of the Party”, the only time we see him is walking down the hallway with a cell phone growing out of his ear. Hilarious lines, to be sure, but dammit, Lorne is a great character, and it really bugs me to seeing him reduced to a prop.

Let us not forget “Where the Wild Things Are”, “Gone”, and “As You Were”. Or “Bring on the Night/Showtime”.

Actually, “Bad Eggs” is one of my favorite episodes. “Beer Bad” is frequently listed as one of the worst “BtVS” eps, but I thought it was hilarious.

I liked Beer Bad, too, mostly for the interactions between Tony Head and Kristine Sutherland.

And Thea - They’re doing to Lorne this year, what they did to Xander last year. The show’s just too crowded and if no one has a good idea for a character, they’ll just hang around in the background.
I miss things. I miss bad ass Wes. I think super-lawyer Gunn is contrived, I get annoyed when Angel gets a call from the local police over a vampire killing, when just a few years ago he was having all that trouble with that (cute) female cop. I miss Cordy (and didn’t this episode remind you guys a lot of the dream episode where Cordy became a star of a sit-com?).

I dunno. I’ve been whining before and maybe I should stop, but I can’t see where they’re going this year. This was only the 9th ep of the season, so maybe things’ll start cooking next week. IIRC the Wheadon formula kicks into gear around episode 10 of the each season.

Don’t know if I’m really buying the “character-heavy” argument. After all, Cordy and Connor are gone, so even bringing Spike in, there is still one less regular on the show. It’s not like there’s about a zillion Slayerettes occupying screen space for no good reason. I think that the writers just haven’t figured out how to integrate an established (and very popular) character into an established ensemble cast. If the WB and UPN could have learned to work and play nice together, there could have been more crossover episodes between BtVS and AtS last season that might have smoothed the transition.

Rabid Spike fan that I am, I feel weird saying this, but I think Spike is being overused this season. I was hoping that he would become part of the Fang Gang, with enough friction between Spike and Angel to keep things interesting, with the occasional Spike-centered ep, (along with the occasional Fred, Wesley, Gun, and Lorne centered ep.) Even with as many characters as there are on the show, I think they could all be given their fair share of screen time by each ep heavily featuring one or two characters, with one or two of the others having lesser roles, and the rest doing a “walk through” just so we all know they’re still part of the show, and doing it, well, not on a rotating basis, but in such a way as nobody becomes a prop on an ongoing basis, as Lorne seems to be.

It’s just as well Spike wasn’t there. The writers of this ep don’t know what to do with him, and it shows.

I think his reasons make perfect sense, but then, I can fanwank anything. Allow me to explain.

Spike wanted Buffy to forgive him and trust him. He didn’t think she would love him and he didn’t expect her to, and obviously didn’t believe her either. By the time of the final battle it was clear that she had forgiven him and it was clear that she trusted him. Not only did she spend her possible final night on Earth with him (they had no way of knowing she’d survive…) she made him her champion. And then he proved her right. He proved she was right for all the times she stood up for him and believed in him. When he died, they were good again.
Like when she died.
And look how that fell apart when she came back.
I think Spike wants Buffy to remember him as the guy who died for her and the world, not the guy who attacked her in the bathroom, not the guy with the demon eggs, not the guy who made mistake after mistake. And I don’t think he wants to take the chance of fucking that up. He’s rash and impulsive and can be rude and thoughtless but he’s not stupid.

As for the ep itself, I liked it. I liked the way Harmony bumbled through trying to survive. I like the way Angel is getting meaner and meaner. Not because I like mean, snappy Angel, but because I think they’re setting him up for February. I love Fred’s scene and the fact she recognized both Fred and Knox are interested. Plus, she looked really hot. I also liked Spike’s scene with Fred and Harm, both of those worked really well.

There was one thing I didn’t like. Wes thinks he kills his father, disappears for awhile, and then comes back and nobody says a word. I know why Alexis wasn’t in ep 8–he was on his Honeymoon. But I think the writers could have handled that just a little bit better.

Nope. But Wes and Gunn didn’t say she was wrong when she explained herself (not that it mattered to Angel- he wasn’t in the camel slaughtering mood). Finding out a fact shows drive, but using it properly shows judgment. It’s the judgment she is lacking, although she is trying.

I think the “no humans” thing is a firm based rule- hence the testing.

Also:

Actually I think he has developed more this season then the last season of Buffy. Due to the excess potentials nonsense and the horrible “romance” with Kennedy (ack!) both Xander, Anya and Spike really did not have enough scene time to do much.

Also, while Spike talked about using Buffy to get at Angel- notice he actually didn’t do so. He stayed in LA. The last Buffy episode made it clear to him that Buffy would never love him the way he did her (the “Riley Syndrome”). And don’t forget the kindness he showed the Harmony at the end of this episode. So I say he is developing. Sure he has issues with Angel, but they are several hundred years old- grudges like that don’t go away in a few weeks.


BTW- we need more Wes dammit! Lorne maybe. Fred, certainly. But Wes, absolutely.

Overall this Season is going pretty good- but losing Conner and Cordy almost assured us of that. I keep wondering when the other shoe on the memory rewrite is going to be dropped. Tinkering with people’s memories always backfires in the end- it is an absolute Jossverse rule. That and good relationships end very badly for at least one of the two parties involved. . .

:wink:

This almost made my head explode. Not only does it imply that she WASN’T utterly adorable in Harm’s Way, but it also implies that she never had been!

Also Gaspode, I read somewhere that Destiny was the first episode filmed after Joss and Co. got the greenlight for the whole season. Therefore, it was assumed that the season arc wasn’t taking off until at least that episode. I’m assuming (and hoping) that the arc will start to gel with the next ep.

Argh- sorry about the excess sigs- &%!#@* new board software seems to have them on by default. My bad.

:mad:

One of the highlights of the episodes. All of the subtitles from the demons, Angel and Gunn speaking were pretty funny. The manwhore just topped it all off.

This cracked me up. My wife had to ask me to explain it. Rupert Murdoch is evil.

I suspect this is part of this season’s arc. In the first few eps, they talked about what the Senior Partners might have up their sleeve, and wondered if the plan was to draw them in and corrupt them. Angel seems to be getting awfully testy and is having trouble saying organized and effective. That could be bad writing, or it could be deliberate. Time will tell.

Re the absence of Spike, I wonder if this wasn’t a story concept that was pitched during the offseason when Whedon & Co knew they’d be going into Wolfram & Hart but before they knew they’d have Spike around. So the Spike scenes are a band-aid, something that was crammed in to explain why he’s gone for most of the show. His explanation upon his return was quite lame.

Overall, I thought it was amusing, but kinda odd. Mostly funny and engaging, with some excellent moments (in addition to “I’m a right-biter!” and “Works for me,” the running gag of the poodle growling after Harmony said hi to the neighbor was cute), along with some stuff that was pretty dumb. Dropping the corpse down the trash chute and missing the dumpster was marginally funny, but it was dragged out without purpose.

These Buffyverse seasons always have half a dozen or so shows that don’t advance the arc (much) and simply pad out the year to the full complement of shows. This is another one. It’s hardly the best example (this season’s Mexican wrestler show was hilarious, IMO), but at the same time it isn’t the worst, either.

Different strokes…

I find Fred (the character) to be to whiney, weak, insecure and generally a-sexual. The actress Amy Acker is way too thin for my tastes. She looks brittle, which matches well with the brittle personality of Fred. I never really understood why they kept her around when they came back from Pylea (i.e. the writers).
And I just remembered that I miss Spandexia too. And this new vamp chick was interesting. Too bad she was dusted.

I was one of Left Hand’s Angel-watching buddies last night, and I have to say that this is the worst episode of Angel I’ve ever seen.

Here’s a wacky tip: if you want me to feel sympathy for a character, don’t make her a vapid bitch. And if you make said character a vapid bitch, for God’s sakes, don’t devote a whole episode to her.

Whedon is capable of writing unlikeable, yet intriguing and often sympathetic characters. Cordelia on Buffy was mean and manipulative, but quite clever, especially at knowing when to twist the knife. Lilah on Angel was evil, but again, very clever and ambitious. Jayne on Firefly: brutish and self-centered, but hilarious and damn good at his job. Harmony possesses none of these redeeming characteristics. She’s just dumb and thoughtlessly mean.

And could the episode have been more trite and predictable? What, do the writers think I’ve never watched television before?

“War Stories.”

They’re tied in my mind for best TV episode ever.

I thought the episode was quite good. Harmony has always cracked me up. Good to see her finally get her own episode. I can understand not liking it, but worst episode of any Whedon show ever? Worst than anything in the last season of Buffy? The first season of Angel? It’s not even the worst episode of this season: remember Hulk!Lorne?

So, couple of things. When I saw the W&H promo, I immediately thought, “WB’s been leaning on Mutant Enemy to bring in new viewers again.” Still funny. Angel being stuffy and uncomfortable is always good for a laugh. And the dorky guy they freeze framed on at the end tickled me inexplicably.

I like that Spike is a good guy, but still a self centered jerk. “Keep it simple, Harm. It suits you.” Asshole! Bite him again, Harmony! But when he wants to be, he can still be insightful. He knew exactly how to cheer up a vampire who feels unappreciated: point out how many people hate her. A perfect evil moral for an episode about an evil character.

"Anything you want me to tell Buffy?
“Tell her you’re a moron!”

I think Spike’s rationalization at the end was supposed to sound lame and unconvincing, because Spike was lying his peroxided little head off. He know Buffy doesn’t, and will never, love him. But there’s no force in the 'verse that will ever get him to admit that to anyone outside of Buffy herself.

They were fairly obvious, but I think that was the point: it is, after all, Harmony who has to sort the whole thing out. For this episode, I think it worked better that the audience was always at least one step ahead of the plot.

She did try to check with Angel. As soon as he shows up at the office in the beginning, she trys to bring up the catering and Angel brushes her off. She was in a completely untenable position: order the camel and risk pissing off Angel with the excess livestock, or not order the camel and risk pissing off Angel by not having the traditional camel slaughter ready to go at the beginning of the peace talks. She was completely blameless in that situation, she got screwed because the caterer messed up and her boss is a big broody jerk.

I agree that it’s a crutch, but the bigger the crutch, the harder the fall will be when they kick it out from under Gunn. I think this storyline has a big pay-off potential, if they play it right.

Do not disrespect the John Ritter episode!

While I agree that this episode was not the best of a Weldon show, I disssagree that it was the worst of any weldon show.

 Three words:

Double

Meat

Palace

“Go Fish” and “Bad Eggs” will (hopefully!) never be replaced as Whedon’s worst moment’s in television history.

This episode was “eh.” Had some cute moments, but all in all seemed to be a filler episode. Cute, but not very compelling t.v.

What puzzles me more, however, was the promo that this episode was supposed to be “the return of Cordy.” What happened to that? Also, yesterday’s USA Today said that this episode would be the first episode directed by David Boreanaz. :dubious: Something odd is happening in Los Angeles.

Also I have been admittedly somewhat lax this year in keeping up with Angel, thanks to eps like this one and the Five Gringos, but I completely missed Spike’s re-corporealization (I totally made up that word, but I hope you get what I mean). In Hellbound (which was re-ran last week, right?) Fred’s efforts failed. Have I completely missed an episode?

David Borneaz is directing next week’s episode—which is number 10.

Cordelia will be in episode 100–that is, episode 12.

Spike was recorporialized in episode 8, the final new episode before the December break.

And Ted was a kickass episode.

Two things:

1.) I HATE Harmony as a character, plot device, and even the actress that plays her (I’ve never seen her do particularly good work)

  1. ) It was no Double Meat Palace which is among the worst, though unfortunately not necessarily the worst episode of anything by Mutant Enemy.

I think the fun was supposed to be in seeing Harmony figure out what you already knew. Not nearly as much fun as watching Columbo. I actually found the chopsticks cute, and Harmony surprisingly bearable – though she is such a simple minded bimbo I don’t know why more people don’t try to take advantage of her.

My gripe is in how the main players are changing, becoming self-absorbed, and particularly how business-like they are becoming. I really don’t think Angel of two seasons ago would have actively treated Harmony – annoying as she is, let me say that again, annoying as she is – like a non-entity. In fact, I don’t think any of the core group would do that.

Now, I suppose, you could make a case for the big bad of this season being themselves falling into the arms of W&H and losing their souls, but that may be an idea that works better on paper than it does in practice.

If this is the last season, it will go out with a wimper, not a bang, because while not as dreadful as BtVS season 6, it is a pale shadow of its better days.

Word! I’ll never understand why so few people like Ted.

That said? I’d rank this episode above… maybe all but 5 or 6 episodes of the last two seasons of Buffy.

They have been showing the wrong promo all week.
And I think the Cordy blurb was a teaser to keep us watching for weeks to come.

I actually think it’s working quite well. There have been some subtle changes in the characters, showing sort of a gradual slide… I had heard that Spike was supposed to sort of be Angel’s conscience this season, being on his case for having gotten into bed with W&H, but it doesn’t seem to be shaping up that way. Angel is definitely starting to act like a Coporate Overlord, but he’s still trying to be a Benevolent Corporate Overlord rather than an Evil Coporate Overlord. But his Corporate Overlordship puts him in a very tenuous positon. He has already performed one summary execution of an employee. Granted, the employee was a demon who had been dismembering virgins in his spare time, but Angel has also killed at least one human this season as well. With that kind of power, he could easily become evil, and all in the name of Truth and Righteousness and Making the World Safe for Christmas and Pupppies. I imagine Angelus is sitting back in the depths of Angel’s unconscious having a metaphorical drink and enjoying the show. And I really think Gunn is enjoying his job way too much for comfort. He’s definitely ripe for corruption.