Angel 22/10/03 - Hellbound (spoilers)

We’re getting close to broadcast as I’m posting this, only some three hours away for the east coast, if I count correctly, so I won’t bother with the spoilerbox. You have been warned.

A good episode, with some nice moments, but some huh? too. I liked the banter 'tween Liam and William, when they were sitting on the couch. “What do they call that hair color? Oh yeah - radio active…”
At one point I thought I was seeing a budding Spinnifred, but who knows. I do think Spike needs a geeky girl. Spillow never came to be and though I’m not a shipper, I notice some faint sparks with him and Fred.

Fans of Spike will be happy to find this to be a Spike centred ep. However, I do think that this mini arc should be over now. The answers aren’t really there, but they don’t seem so important now, that he’s not slipping into hell anymore.

Wes got a little more to do, and the scene in the white room with Gunn was OK. Lorne only had one scene (IIRC). I hope we get an ep centred around him soon. I miss the Lorne of Caritas but think that Lorne interacting with celebrities in the office could be fun. And an afterthought from last week. He offered ‘Cosmos’ to everyone, but his favorite poison is Sea Breeze.

Lots of Fred, which was kinda nice, but her playing the scared little girl should be done now. She’s shown that she has backbone so could we please get a more assertive Fred?

The thing I didn’t like was how Angel acted with the reaper. He’s starting to get vengeful. Enjoying kicking him after he was down, and then locking him up with some glee. Of course, Angel’s been taking out bad guys for four seasons now, but he’s never …revelled in it before. He’s enjoying it too much. I don’t know if it’s inconsistency or a set up for things to come, but I don’t like it.

And there are some points deducted for graphic gore.


I am spoiler-free and pumped for tonight: 1:30 hours to go.


The Gaspode: Points deducted for graphic gore? Huh? This episode was meant to be disturbing. I’m with you on the corruption of Angel. I think it’s meant to be a gradual plot arc, of how Angel will act with basically unlimited power behind him. Wild-ass guess: Angel will become more isolated from the gang, and start doing overtly evil things, almost certainly in the name of fighting evil. On the other hand, I completely didn’t see season 4 coming, so take this as you may.

On the gratuitous Spikeflesh: As a hetero male, I can only hope that this will lead to greater things, such as gratuitous Eveflesh.

There were a few things that bothered me, like when Spike and Angel were on the couch together, why did Spike make more of an impression in the couch than Angel did? Also all the little doodads WB plastered all over the screen were highly distracting.

Spike and Fred have great chemistry. I have no desire to pair them up romanticly, but it was great to watch.

This was the best episode of the season so far, hopefully things will continue to improve.

The gore didn’t bother me a bit, epecially after having seen 28 Days Later last night. The nudity was very tasteful too, unlike much of Buffy s6’s capers.

Wait, wait, wait…you mean there’s gonna be a plot line focused on ANGEL? But why would Mutant Enemy do that? They have Spike now, duh! It’ll be Buffy season 6 all over again, with every episode focused on him.

At least, that’s what it’s turning out to be, and I’m not a happy camper. I hope next week’s ep is as fun as it looks.

I really liked this episode tonight. Ever since Season 6 of Buffy, I haven’t been much a fan of Spike-centered episodes, but I feel this time that they pulled it off rather well. A lot of that had to do with, I feel, their decision to cut back on a thousand extra characters. This episode’s biggest players were the regular cast members. Plus, I liked how creepy the Reaper was. I’m hoping that he eventually escapes and becomes a bigger problem.

The unquestioned presence of Eve, though, kinda bothered me. It seems like they just threw her in there after a couple of unexplained absences. The last time we saw her she seemed ambiguously evil; this time she seemed friendly and helpful–yet with no explanation as to why. Plus, no one seemed suspicious of that.

As for Angel… is he looking decidedly plumpier these days? Also, is anyone else disliking his wardrobe? I know it’s a small thing, but I think he looks better when he’s dressed up in his usual black leather coat. This suit thing with an open shirt just makes him seem like the Barry Manilow-loving disco guy from a long-ago era. (Which, I suppose, is true…)

The only other thing I didn’t care much for in this episode, is how Spike is able to now touch things all Patrick Swayze-like. It seemed like they just stole a page from Ghost. That said, I’m glad they finally worked in a way for him to start touching things again. It’ll make future episodes more interesting. :slight_smile:

angel is beginning to remind me of the simpsons spinoff that never was, “grandpa the love tester.”

i’ve always liked the spike character, but i’m getting sick of his “struggle.” get over it already… and for a guy who’s been to the edge of madness, through unspeakable tests to reclaim his soul, and being burned alive (sort of) from the inside out to save the world, he sure gets shaken up by a couple of marginally gory spooks.

the most compelling character from last year, good ol’ wes, is getting marginalized, and lorne is pretty much non-existent. i thought gunn’s little encounter with mr deus ex machina would leave some room for wes’s newfound badassness, but no. and will these guys ever get out of the building? i know they spent a lot on the w&h set, but get the guys out in the street a little.

so i’m not liking the new direction. you have to root for the little rag-tag fang gang, but fang incorporated, llc, isn’t quite as endearing.

and what is with that eve woman? does she have a purpose other than to spackle up little plot holes? cordy was much hotter, plus she had the best connection to the buffy half of the mutant enemy universe. angel’s just kind of on it’s own at this point.

Great episode. Genuinely creepy, with some good dark humor: “Hey I didn’t even have my soul when I did that!”. The dialog between Spike and Angel was great as well.

Huh? I disagree of the four episodes so far this has been the only episode really focusing on Spike. Episodes one and three barely featured him at all, and the second episode of the season was fairly evenly split between him and Angel.

I agree that the ending with the Reaper was disturbing. I think the loss of Conner is pushing Angel over the edge… and of course he can’t talk about it with anyone.

Amazingly, I liked that episode despite how Spike-centric it was. I thought the gore was done pretty well when it could have easily become incredibly cheesy.

The almost complete lack of, you know, Angel dissapointed me, though, and I still don’t like Gunn the Plot Device at all.

I guess I’m just cautious, and I really don’t like Spike. I feel like Angel and the MoG were doing fine without him, and he was only brought over to capture some of the hardcore Spike fans from the Buffy audience. I’m not convinced that this season isn’t going to end up being all about him. I hope it’s not, but we’ll have to see.

Great episode. The first half was very creepy, although the monster was a disappointment. Not that it wasn’t a great character, but once it had a face to punch, most of the atmosphere evaporated. I hope they bring Pavane back, though. He’d be a great re-occuring villain.

“I liked your poems.” Heh.

In this case, what they were doing was in the best interest of Wolfram and Hart. I don’t think they wanted a rogue spirit running around uncontrolled in their L.A. office. Sounds like a major security risk. In fact, isolating Pavane might have just earned them their paychecks.

Angel is definitely getting darker again. His speech with Spike was a big red flag: he no longer believes in redemption. No matter how much good he does, he’s going to burn. No matter what. He still fights evil, because he has a conscience, and can’t just stand by, but he no longer has any reason to pull his punches. Why not just kill the bad guy? What’s the point of holding back? I predict this is a crisis that can only be resolved by a Special Guest Appearance.

I also wonder if Gunn’s little throw off comment about his law knowledge “turning itself on sometimes” is perhaps significant.

Question: Wasn’t Spike a product of the Victorian era? And if so, why would he use the phrase, “the King’s English,” instead of “the Queen’s English”, which is that I’ve always heard that phrase as?

Nit-picky, I know, but it bugged me.

That line seemed odd to me, too. I always assumed “the Queen’s English” refered specifically to Queen Elizabeth, and the English of Shakespeare. Don’t know if that’s actually true, though.

Yeah. But what about ‘Helping the helpless’? Buffy fought evil, that was her mission statement. But Angel helps the helpless, and there’s been too little of that so far.

Exactly my point: he’s going dark again. I finally got the season two DVDs, so maybe I’m seeing parrallels that aren’t there, but this arc feels familiar. Not necessarily in a bad way, mind. But he’s definitly not himself, and I don’t think it’s just sloppy writing. C’mon. “You can’t save everyone”? From the guy who brought back Faith? He’s having a major moral crisis here.

Well, as long as someone else has started being nit-picky…

I thought I heard Wes make a reference to a book called the Necronomicon de Morte. And I thought “Isn’t that redundant”?

Add that to the multiple humans he’s killed since the season began (something that he’s always tried to avoid in the past, correct?) and I think you’re right. Maybe Beige Angel will come back!

I was quite pleased, especially after last week’s lackluster episode. I like Spike much better when he’s not embroiled in Spuffy drama. They did a great job creating a creepy atmosphere in the first half, though I agree with Miller that Pavane was much scarier before we saw him.

My favorite moment was when Fred told Eve and Angel that she knew Spike was playing her. Yeah! This is no dumb cookie to fall blithely for the Peroxided One’s charms.

On a baser note, I was kinda hoping for more partial nudity. My buds and I were all hoping for a little more of Fred in the shower. As my husband put it, if you’re going to pander, pander.

Great comments- I was thinking the same thing. The “darkening” of Angel’s outlook and actions, the impact of being surrounded by W&H and its attendant pressures are starting to wear on Angel. And maybe that was the plan of the Senior Partners. Another try at the Season 2 idea of turning Angel.

As for the episode I really enjoyed it- I thought the warnings were a bit overdone, as the nudity and images were not that bad. The plot, actions, acting and direction were all up to snuff. For those snarking about Spike, this is his first episode centered around him, and it went pretty good. When JM gets decent lines and direction he is pretty damn good. While I was nervous when the news was announced, but the overall impact has been rather low, other then the impact of Wes’ screen time.

Next week looks like a fun Halloween episode.

This old Buffy fan/Angel newb enjoyed it, and my fam was sufficiently scared.

I liked when Fred tried to pretend that Spike scared her.

Angel does seem pretty blah - and pudgy.

Can anyone explain the white room with the black panther?