OK I hate to ask this… I haven’t watched this show since Cordelia apparently came back from wherever she was and seemed to turn evil. The last episode I watched was one where she ‘gave birth’ to an evil female being that seemed to be controlling everyones minds except Fred’s…
Does anyone know of a good site where I could get a rundown of what has happened plotwise since then?
Thanks!
You mean, someone like Illyria? 
Angel makes the point in Season 3’s Loyalty episode when Holtz sends a spy, Aubrey, to the Hotel.
Hey Pepperlandgirl, that’s an interesting theory on the Shanshu prophecy, but to be honest, I’m not sure I get it. Could you explain how Connor could be it? What did the prophecy say? The vampire with a soul will play a large part in the apocalypse, and will then live and die (become mortal)? Something like that? How’s that Connor?
Also, my sisters and I have often talked about how interesting it would be if Angel Shanshu’d, and there was a “big flash of light” thing, and the scene changed to Liam meeting Darla, and deciding to turn down her proposition (not sure why anyone would do that). But then Liam would live his life without becoming a vampire. Interesting take on the prophecy. I’m 99.9% sure it won’t happen that way. But imagine the Buffyverse if Angel were never there. No Drusilla, no Spike (which would suck), and Buffy would have likely died in Season 1.
Interesting to think about.
As for Wednesday’s ep, I liked it. I used to be worried that they’d try to wrap everything in the last 6 weeks…then I was worried that they wouldn’t wrap everything up in the last 6 weeks…now I’m just along for the ride. I love this show, and no matter what they do, I’m going to savor the last three episodes.
Obviously with next week’s flashback and then only two more episodes, they’re going to be some loose ends that won’t get wrapped up. Which of the small one(s) that probably won’t have a TV Movie are going to bug you most?
The last we saw of Justine, Wesley had left her chained to a pier after they pulled Angel out of the ocean in Season 4. He said something about her being able to choose to be a slave (to her anger and revenge) or she could choose to be free. So, which did she choose?
And what about Gwen Raiden? Gunn helped turn her “off”. Now what
TV Tome is a good place for short plot summaries. If you Google around there is at least one Angel-specific site that has very detailed summaries. Also try Television Without Pity.
Yeah, what about her? I wouldn’t mind seeing Spandexia again. She was…nice to look at.
Are you sure? I thought the last we saw of her was when she put Sahjahn in the jar. Did I miss something?
She put Sahjahn in the jar in Season 3. But Season 4 started with Wesley forcing her to dive to recover Angel from the ocean. He kept her chained or in a box when not in use. After rescuing Angel he tossed the keys to her shackles on the ground in front of her, I think they might have been just out of reach, and told her to make a choice.
Oops, you’re right. I thought they bottled up Sahjahn later in the series, after they’d fished Angel out of the drink, but now that I think about it, that’s obviously wrong. He was gone before teen Connor showed up.
Ok, here’s the exact explanation of the shanshu from To Shanshu in L.A.
(Note that there’s nothing about an apocolypse, just fulfilling of destiny…)
Now, the Buffy(Angel)verse routinely plays fast and loose with prophecies. In fact, sayeth the master
So what if the Shanshu prophecy isn’t telling us everything? There’s no way Wes could have assumed when he translated it that it wouldn’t literally mean Angel would live again. THere’s no way he would have thought of a child.
But then, what is a child? Before Connor was born, they were worried he’d be some sort of monster. Angel was elated when they heard proof that his son was alive. A human. The son that carries half of his genetic make-up and all of his strength. I guess what I’m thinking is that Angel is literally living again through the son he created with Darla. That Connor is his destiny. Why?
Connor is strong enough to literaly fight demons and stop apocolypses. He’s strong enough, that if he chose to, he could save people every night like Angel does. He’s also obviously intelligent. And why shouldn’t he be? Angel and Darla are many things, but stupid they are not. He’s intelligent enough to make a difference in the world once he gets out of school. Emotionally, he’s well grounded. He has literally seen the worst of humanity, he knows how bad things can get. And yet, when he walked away with Angel, he did so with an appreciation of who he was and what his father taught him, not with bitterness and anger.
Physically, mentally, and emotionally he’s in a position where he could literally change the world on a small or large scale. Connor could be a true gift to the world–Angel managed to give something back that he thought he could only steal. A life. A life. Angel can live again through his son. After every horrible thing he did as Angelus, and all the souls he fought for, all the demons he killed, and all the good he done as Angel, he gave his world something infinitely precious that he should have never been able to give.
I think this relates to the S2 episode The Trial, when Angel fought to save Darla’s life.
Connor is her second chance too. And by killing herself, she made the same sacrifice that Angel made for her. Of course, she didn’t get to walk away from the trial in one piece, but by accepting her death, she also gave herself a second chance. Everything that Connor is for Angel, he is for Darla as well.
Also, Angel fought for a life. He earned a life. He won a life. Maybe the life he won was ultimately Connor’s…
From Offspring
His destiny wasn’t to spawn something evil at all. His destiny was to create something good. His destiny is his shanshu, and the life he fought for, and the gift he was granted, came in the form of a new life–Connor. I remembered this quote at the end of episode 18 and it made me cry like a baby…or you know, sniffle like I had a cold.
Yeah, but she’s, y’know, BLUE, so I’m partial to her…
(Sorry, I don’t know how get more than one quote in a reply yet . )
Okay, OKAY, it’s NOT boring, at least when you put it like that 
.
After long and careful deliberation, the Committee has decided to confer upon you, Pepperlandgirl, a Doctorate of Philosophy in AtVS. You shall heretofore be known as Pepperlandgirl, Ph.D., or Dr. Pepperlandgirl, whichever you prefer, with all the rights and privileges issuing therefrom and so on and so forth, hereby declared on this 30th day of April in the Year of Joss 2004. Congratulations! Very, very impressive!
Sans Spike Buffy might never have come into existence at all given that he offed two slayers.
I’m now as psoiled as Pepperlandgirl is (up to ep.22), and I agree with her. This was not stand alone, but served the arc well. Apart from that, I have to digest the spoilage. Let’s just say that many viewers will be surprised.
For the kind of obsessively detailed, frame-by-frame episode summaries true fans need I recommend City Of Angel (I can’t recall which Doper recommended the site to me.)
Re Shanshu
Are you sure it’s protoBantu? I could’ve sworn that it was protoUgaric. I say that it isn’t Connor. Angel fulfills his destiny and is rewarded with a transformation into flea. No longer part demon, he is at last free to walk in the sun, grow old, die, hop massive distances, and live on dogblood. The last shot of the series is a zoom in Angel’s head. His antenae twich. His mandibles quiver. In voice over we hear Angel say ‘Reward my ass! Lousy stinking shanshu! Powers That Be, if you can hear me-Eat Shi’ sudden cut to credits. End of series.
Would they be heavy, brooding antennae?
They’d have to be, wouldn’t they?
I need to be in bed, so I ain’t going to look it up, but they explain the life won from The Trial somewhere in either Season 3 or Season 4. To make a quick summary, the life won in that episode was Connor. Darla already had a life restored to her, and Angel won the life fair-and-square, but they didn’t say that Darla walked away without an extra life, just that she couldn’t live again–which is how she got pregnant. Connor was that life Angel won.
Okay, I lied: I did look. But now I can’t find it. I thought it was our horny friend, Skip, who originally told us that. But after looking through a few transcripts of Season 4, I can’t find it. Does anyone else remember that?
In terms of the prophesy, isn’t the fact that Spike’s still a vampire a sign that the prophecy isn’t quite what it’s cracked up to be? I mean, he’s a vampire with a sould that fullfilled the prophecy (sacrificed himself to save the world, yadda yadda yadda), yet he’s still a blood sucker. When I heard he was going to be a character on Angel, I thought the storyline was going to deal with his coming back human, having been the fulfillment of the prophecy, and then having Angel deal with that, but apparently, that didn’t happen. Still, I’m suprised noone on the show has picked up on that fact and brought it into question. I mean, that makes it pretty obvious to me something’s not quite right.