I can’t accept that they die in that alley! My thought is that Angel is still super pumped from sucking Senior Power blood from Hamilton!
I liked it a lot.
About the strategy of the last battle… They weren’t defending or even trying to survive. They were out to kill. I’m willing to bet all three super naturals could have lived and been captured. If they do need the characters later they could easily be retrieved from a hell dimension.
When Angel said goodbye to Connor, I was really hopeing he’d say something like; If you decide that this is the life you want… well… find Buffy Summers. She’ll help you.
I like that the one most likely to die (Lorne)… is the only one to survive.
Well Harmony lives… I don’t think she should have. But those kinds often do survive.
The sequences with the characters’ last days seemed very … cinematic. Didn’t feel like a TV show.
Anyone else feel like stashing the WB execs responsible for canceling this show in WR&H’s basement next to Pavayne?
I think this defintely epitomized Angel’s philosophy of “It’s not the winning, it’s not even the saving, it’s the fighting”. It may be a hopeless battle, it may not even matter in the long run, but by god you can hurt the bastards, and that might be enough.
I hated every moment taken up by commercials. I hated every “you are watching the last Angel episode ever” bits. I loved practically every moment of the episode.
Angel signing away the Sanshu prophecy without any hesitation. In his own blood.
Angel and Lindsey’s meeting (and how well Lindsey got played). Angel’s inadvertant “I want you, Lindsey”. Are there any…what would it be, Lindgel? Andsey?..shippers being pandered to? {never mind, please don’t answer that…}
Angel’s “one of you is going to betray me”, with Spike’s hand immediately going up (and the subsequent “can I at least deny you three times?”)
The perfect days:
Gunn’s meeting with Anne and her basically telling him Angel’s position again. Plus, she looked much more like the high school girl from S2/S3 Buffy than she did in “Blood Money” and the zombie cop episodes of Angel.
Lorne back up on stage. Geeze, how long has it been since we’ve seen Andy just sit down and belt something out? And with an excellent song choice as a bonus.
Wes patching up Illyria, and his bit about telling Truth from illusion.
Spike at the bar getting “liquid courage”. I figured it’d be perfect for him to take on a bar full of toughs, getting into one last scrap he knew he could win. Then it was even more perfect having him at “Poetry Slam”. As soon as I saw him there, I literally sat up and said “effulgent!”…
Angel’s half-hearted attempt at helping Connor with his resume.
“Have you ever done a resume? Ever?”
“No. But I have very nice penmanship…”
“You’re such a girl.” 
The actual taking out of the black thorns was also done well. Illyria would obviously demolish just about anything she was sent against, so the brief intro, eventually followed by the shot of the demolished car was great. Gunn picked up Angel’s “Batman wrist stakes” from season 1 and planted a hatchet in the middle of Demon-senator’s forehead. Lorne being the one in charge of dispatching Lindsey. The fight with Hamilton (after showing that the arch-duke was already taken care of).
Gah, you watched the episode, I’m just babbling.
I was completely torn up by Wes’s death (even with being a bit spoiled). He always struck me as the most “grown up” of the Angel gang (well, once he got past first season’s “rogue demon hunter” phase). He was the one who always seemed to think about consequences, even when he did act in spite of them (as in the case of baby Connor). He was IMO a better leader than Angel. Unfortunately (this being the Jossverse), happiness could never be in the cards. Illyria’s “should I lie to you now” and her change into Fred seemed a fitting symmetry: Fred died in his arms, it’s only fair that Wes should die in hers.
As a last comment, my take on the alley. They didn’t win. They didn’t lose. They’re still fighting, because fighting is what champions do. Well, that and slay the dragon. 
I raise a toast to Joss, Angel, the writers, and the actors for 5 years of excellent television.
As for the people responsible for canceling this: pah, ptuh, we shall speak of them no more!
Spoiler Alert! (don’t know how to make boxes 
)
I loved DB being interviewed on the WB news with blood all over his face (how did they ever get him/them to do that?!) and saying that he just “got in a fight with a network & lost”…“put up a pretty good fight, though!” Bwahahahah!!! (Those dimwits!)
I loved the episode with its Michael-Corleone-take-out-the-heads-of-the-five-families homage as well as the Butch Cassidy homage (can kinda tell which movies Joss likes.) I liked the scenes with Angel & Connor - he was always at his best with Connor, I thought. Spike’s stuff was a little thin to me - he was a loverboy, his perfect day would’ve had a woman in it, IMO (I know, I know, but who?). I felt sorry for Lorne - he was just so bummed! He seemed to be the one whose association with Angel brought him no good whatsoever. Definitely a happier camper before.
“Can I have a reference?”
“It’s in the desk”
I’ll miss the show, I’ll miss Spike (I’m gay and I think he’s an uberhottie!), and I’ll miss these threads - lurking and reading about Buffy was what got me here, at first .
I just thought I’d point out that Charisma Carpenter is in this month’s Playboy.
Excuse me while I go howl at the moon.
But I thought you were all about Jennifer, Airman! http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=257210
The Airman be randy these days - must be a full moon 
Yup. I agree he’s one of them, but i think Faith, mayor Richard Willkins III and Cordy are the others. Faith is a much more interesting character for slayerhood than Buffy ever was. The dark side of the slayer got augmented with Faith’s own personal history, creating a character that really has do deal with ‘great powers and great responsibilities’. If you suddenly got überstrong, up to the point where you could break out from prison at will and basically nothing could stop you - how would you handle that power? The mayor was always a character that seemed very remorseful. I really thing he regretted having sold his soul, something done when he was very young, but with a century to ponder his actions, he’d gotten to the point where he just kept going, because there was no other way - something like the flipside of Angel.
Cordy won me over around the time of the HS prom. Walking around in the store, looking at that dress made it for me. Suddenly, the character was a lot more complex than what had previously been played out.
I guess it’s fake, because he speaks with an American accent in interviews, but since he’s lived for 13 years in England, it’s just possible that he’s bi-accented. Anyway, Hannigan is doing theatre in England and there is rumor about her getting her own sitcom on a major network. Rumor also has it that Denisof is short listed as successor to Pierce Brosnan as Bond, but that rumor has been flying around about so many actors I’ll only say that I think he could play the part.
He can have a comfortable life showing up at cons for wuite some time. He won’t be starving anytime soon.
I’m waiting for the download to get done (currently @28.5%) so I can finally see what I read a few weeks ago. Dammit, I was up half the night waiting for the ep to show up on the net, but it was very late so I had to wait to this morning.
Same way you do any other coding, with the word SPOILER in the brackets.
Disagree completely. One more meaningless shag versus having his poetry appreciated by an audience? Given the significance of that poem in Spike’s personal history, there was no way any woman (with the possible exception of Buffy, and that wasn’t going to happen) would compare.
FWIW, jellyblue, I’m putting in a request that you start following the board convention of putting your material in your post after the quote instead of before. I’m willing to venture I’m not the only one who finds your current mode annoying. (insert smiley of your choice here)
So they finally decided to go ahead with “The Incredibly Hot Adventures of Willow”? That’s great!
I liked the ending to Butch Cassidy; I enjoyed the ending to Thelma and Louise (although I’ve never seen the full movie; every time I catch it on the tube, it’s close to the ending); however, those endings work well for two hour-long movies which don’t have any real backstory. Not Angel, though. It didn’t work at all. It felt cheap and as if the writers were copping-out. (Just the ending, mind you. I thought the episode itself was pretty good.)
Angel and his MoG always go into it an apocalypse knowing that the’re likely die–that ain’t special. Hell, they do that for nearly every episode; they swim in the possibility of death. But to waste the series finale on killing a group which, before the last two episodes, never existed? A group filled with characters who–in their previous episodes where some of them showed–were only minor evils? Yuck.
They should have given this episode a two hour ending, wrapping up Shansu. They even managed to finally fulfill the Connor prophecy a few episodes back (which was also somewhat weak, but at least they did it), they should have taken a stab at the most important prophecy to the whole show.
(And keep in mind that none of my bitching will apply if they ever manage to make the television movies and answer the whole Shansu thing. I’m looking at this as if the series finale is just that: the end, period.)
I will say, though: it was a better ending than Buffy’s–although for sincere weep moments, the scene in Buffy with the four main characters standing around talking like they did in the second episode of the first season, beats all.
I loved the ending. It felt very honest. After all, the saying isn’t “win the good fight,” it’s “fight the good fight.” And the last battle seemed perfectly in character. Wesley had lost Fred; Gunn was dealing with the fact that he had betrayed the MoG and caused Fred’s death; Angel had signed away any hope of becoming human; and Spike and Illyria love a good brawl. What better time to make a final, wonderful last stand?
My favorite parts were the scenes with Lorne. When he shoots Lindsay…man. Oh, man. Poor Lorne.
Totally! I was going to reply, but you got there first. I can’t imagine any day better for Spike. In fact, when I saw him up there, reading poetry, I got all choked up and whispered, “William”. It was a perfect and fitting “ending” that he finally got recognition for the same poetry he was so made fun of when he was still human (which was the direct cause of his getting turned into a vamp).
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I disagree with everyone that says this group of bads didn’t exist before the last two episodes. They introducd a lot of those characters throughout the season (or at least since the cancellation was announced). They just didn’t give you their connection or name. The symbol, on the other hand, has been used (from what I’ve read) before. I don’t think it was cheap or a waste to tie everything together as they did.
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As for the ending - it was perfect. There was a quote by Angel that I think sums up the theme of the entire show and the ending supports and lives up to that theme perfectly: “And if there’s no great glorious end to this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. 'Cause that’s all there is: what we do. Now. Today”
sigh I’m still very sad. But I’m on the Butch and Sundance bandwagon. And I think it might actually be better that we didn’t see them all die.
Oh, and I cried like a little girl. 
But then, I started tearing up sometime during Smallville.
“Can I deny you three times?”
Ahhh.
Let me just say : I don’t think they’re dead. Obviously, everyone can speculate whichever way they wish until we see another Buffyverse project … but somehow I envision the Angel Gang receiving last-minute reinforcements. Lorne placed a call to past allies of the Fang Gang, you see, after he left Lindsey’s corpse… and told them that Angel was going to need help, and where, and when. At least, that’s what I intend to believe.
I do wish we’d had a two-hour finale, though. Work in more cameos by people who were important in the past Angel arcs. Groo, Gwen, Faith, and possibly Kate.
Oh, but I am all about Jennifer. That doesn’t mean that I can’t appreciate other fine examples of the female species, especially one who makes it so easy for me by saving me the trouble of using my imagination.
Count me in with everyone who loved the ending. This show has always been about fighting the good fight–that’s how it began and that’s how it ended. I cried like a big geek last night and then when I was telling my sister about the episode (she missed it) this morning I started crying again. I especially loved the Not-Fred moment (I can’t remember who it was who worded it that way and I’m too lazy to scroll, but nifty…) and loved Spike finally getting props for his poetry. And I loved Illyria at the very end…“I wish to commit more violence.” Or however she said it. I didn’t expect to like Illyria as much as I wound up liking her. I’m so pissed this show is over.
If Joss ever does a show on HBO, I’m gonna have to break down and FINALLY get cable.
And I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one who flipped the bird at my television set when that stupid “Thank you from your friends at the WB” came on. Bastards.
Pepperland Girl, I hope you’re feeling better from your night of drunken sadness…with you in spirit.
“Those who don’t care will never understand those that do.” (Or however it was worded).
That, in a nutshell, summed up the finale. Even the series. I’m thinking of making it a sig line.
I agree with those who thought it felt rushed. It was. The season was thrown off course by the cancellation, and it would have been hard to wrap it up in an entirely satisfactory way. But this came close. And it fits the “darker and more adult” theme of “Angel.” In “Buffy,” most of the heroes survived. They saved the day. That’s how stories for younger people end. In “Angel,” they all died (probably). Sometimes, there is no happily ever after. And sometimes, that’s how grown-up stories end.
Whatever happened to Groo?
Seemed to me that Scooby Incorporated would have known that something heavy was going down, and sent Andrew and some Charlie’s Angels to come and see what’s up.
That was only one of my many problems with this show.
Don’t get me started. :rolleyes: Guess we’ll just have to wait for a Buffy/Angel movie.