Groo went to that great “We are through with the character, but we may want to use them later, so let’s not kill them off” holding pen in Joss’s basement.
Perfect ending…or as perfect as TV is ever going to get. So it was rushed…sometimes the world rushes.
Didn’t sleep much last night after the finale. I kept running the episode over and over in my head, trying to come to grips with the fact that it’s over. 
“Effulgent”
I don’t recall seeing the symbol before (which isn’t to say that I didn’t just overlook it), but even if it was there, in the background, somewhere, the symbol wasn’t tied in, thematically-speaking. A lot of those Black Thorn characters were shown–in one way or another–before, but for most of them, not in any particularly major evil ways. The classical devil appearance guy? He was written in before as a sight gag, not as a representative of the big baddies. And the baby sacrificing dudes? They were originally a vehicle used to shower us with suspicion of Angel’s moral character. I think the senator had the potential to be an interesting evil, but obviously she was given no time to develop. All-in-all, if I were one of the Senior Partners and I was choosing my reps on Earth, I wouldn’t choose such weenies.
I still feel that the writers needed some tangible group for Angel to fight, so they threw together a few of the minor baddies from this season, gave them a group name, some standard robes, an “eh” symbol and then tried to convince the viewers that these reps had, indeed, been here all along. In the previous seasons, I took it as that the Wolfram and Hart lawyers were the reps (whether or not it was implied by the writers), not some funky-looking minor demons. Plus, in my opinion, it’s much more delisciously evil to have human beings as the big bads as opposed to a make-up-encrusted demon; this is why I think Hamilton (and to a lesser degree, the senator) would have made for a much better focal point for evil incarnated.
I’m not saying that Angel and his MoG should have taken down the Senior Partners and provided pretty flowers and sweet puppies for everyone; however, the biggest theme for the show has always been Angel’s quest for redemption. I don’t agree that fighting the good fight satisfies that redemption; in that regard, I always saw at least the acknowledgment and engaging of Shansu as being a fulfillment of that redemption. Shansu has been sitting there, patiently waiting since the end of Season 1–but then they have Angel simply (supposedly) write it off with a pen stroke. That turkey just don’t jive with me. I see Shansu as a sticky plot point they with which they didn’t know how to deal once they heard the cancellation notice, so they just pushed it to the side.
I agree that a darker ending is apropos for Angel (although I think that Buffy’s was fairly dark itself)–which is why I thought Lorn killing Lindsey was very effective–as long as the writers deal with that 300 pound elephant they, themselves, brought into the room.
But, oh well… I’ll watch it again tonight; maybe I’ll start seeing what most of the rest of you see.
I figure you noticed, but maybe you didn’t: the last punch Angel landed on Hamilton broke his neck. The TV-broken-neck crunch sound effect was definitely audible.
The title of the episode was quite apt: “Not fade away”. It doesn’t matter if they all die, hell, most were dead to start with. It was a beautiful ending and would have been cheaper with them standing in a sea of blood after the fight and someone throwing away a lame one-liner. This is what heroes do, they fight the good fight.
“Take your best shot girl” Heh!
There certainly is potential in Illyria and I wouldn’t mind seeing more of that character, although it could be said that since she felt sad, her road to redemption/humanity/whatever has begun. Hamilton was such a great bad guy, I was sad to see him go. One thing I wonder, though - he said something about “we” when talking about how he was the vessel for WR&H. I wonder if he actually was more than liason, that he actually was them in their earthly form. Eve certainly didn’t have any superpowers and Hamilton arriving could’ve been the SP taking a closer interest, actually arriving at the office. In that case, Angel didn’t kill him, he just destroyed the shell, and that’s when the building started falling apart, with all that power unleashed. It fits with Fred/Illyria and how only so much power can be contained in a human vessel.
I liked it a lot and think it was the perfect way to end the series, going out with a bang and not a whimper. Should any movies or spinoffs be made, I hope they don’t try to continue the story, but set them up as selfcontained. It would be great with an Illyria movie, with Angel just showing up briefly. He’s story is done. Move on to someone else.
But mostly, hope that Firefly - the movie is a hit, so the tv show can be resurrected.
Here’s a Question. The Senior Partners are the Wolf, Ram, and Hart, yeah? So which one did Angel kill in Season Two? Do the other two make fun of him for being dusted by a vampire?
Yeah, its on Cinemax After Dark. 
I really enjoyed the episode, the season, and the show.
The reference on the desk part, the poisioning the strongest enemy part, the which part shouldn’t you have said part, the final day parts- especially Angel and Connor. Oh and everything Amy did. “I wish to commit more violence”. Excellent.
As far as the final scene- its ambigous. While everyone has an opinion, they are just that- mere opinions. While Gunn was the more seriously hurt they others were amped up and pretty powerful (especially Angel on the Senior Power juice) and a very angry Illeria. They could have lived, they could have died. We will never know.
Stupid WB. :mad:
This I agree with. First, we know who W&H’s representatives on earth are: their representatives are the freakin’ law firm. Coming up with a whole new set of reps seemed forced. HOWEVER, I disagree that these guys were weenies. All of them except the senator had won out over Angel in a previous episode, IIRC. Angel had had to make nice to the loathsome devil-guy; he had done the bidding of the time-sorcerer; he had given the baby-killers their messiah to sacrifice. I think they were at least moderately powerful.
I don’t agree with this; in fact, I found Angel’s relinquishing of the prophecy to be one of the more powerful moments in the episode. What you see as a blithe dismissal of the show’s central motive, I see as Angel’s final epiphany. This was the moment when he realized that he couldn’t just be fighting for the sake of a reward. He accepted that all he could do was fight, that atonement for the sake of redemption was no atonement at all. In realizing that, he signed and accepted his doom. Good stuff!
Daniel
I loved it. And I need to buy more Kleenex now.
Put me down for ‘they’re all dead.’. To me it was clear that even if they somehow managed to slay the dragon, and kill a few hundred demon soldiers, the bad guys would just keep coming.
Lorne gets to live, knowing that his association with Angel resulted in Karatos being destroyed several times, his coming to care about people who are all dead now, and having to kill a man in cold blood. Until he pulled the gun and shot Lindsey, I couldn’t understand the ‘whatever happens, you’ll never see me again. This is it for me.’. The rest of the gang can accept having to kill. But, Lorne can’t.
Vail was introduced as a very powerful sorceror. He’s the one WR&H go to when they want major reality alteration. After a discussion in another thread, I expected Wesley to die. But, I was disappointed that he didn’t do more research and find a more effective weapon. Something like ‘You’re right, Vale. I don’t have the enough magical power to take you down. But, this does.’
‘The Abenkhian talon?! Ha! Henh henh! You should have done your research boy. Using that won’t just kill me. It’ll kill you too.’
‘Volnaka gehnerhang v’nush! By the talon of Abenki I strike down my enemy!’
A ray from the talon destroys Vale. The talon seems to be drawing its power from Wesley. He crumples to the ground.
‘I am Wesley Wyndham Price. Formerly of the Watchers Council. Former rogue demon hunter. I (cough cough spit up blood) had access to the archives of Wolfram and Hart. I always do my research’
At this point, Ilirya can enter for the ‘Do you want me to lie to you now?’ scene.
Maybe this will answer your question.
Or maybe not.
Yeah, Angel signed away his role in the prophecy, in blood…
But not with his name. “Angel” is a nickname - his name is Liam McSomething-or-other. Might this be a way out?
I also agree that they survive the fight at the end. Maybe Gunn bites the dust, though there’s no guarantee of it…people have survived worse wounds in the real world, never mind on TV.
I loved it. Poor Wes. I loved Spike’s poetry. The Angel/Connor coffee talk. Illyria made me cry. Poor Lorne.
I loved the ending, it was perfect.
thanks, Joss and Co.
Hm. They can’t be all dead. Real Prophecies seem to come true in the Whedonverse, even in shady ways sometimes. Unless there’s going to be a third vampire with a Soul, Spike (or Angel, if his signature is illegitimate) has to Shanshu.
I thought this when I saw him do it. Points of interest:
1.) Angel’s original contract with W&H for Cordelia’s care and Connor’s memory replacement had his signature, as ‘Angel’, in that lovely penmanship he mentions to Connor this ep.
2.) The signature on the Shanshu scroll was just sloppy. Could he have purposefully mangled it? Or (silly) maybe he channeled his demon-half to sign it, so the demon never gets to be human, but Angel’s human soul will.
3.) Given #1, W&H could argue in interdimensional superior court that since ‘Angel’ is the name he’s been known by for one hundred years, it is legitimate. But it is a grey area.
I was thinking the same thing - except along the lines “The Vampire’s name is Angelus - he just signed a word.”
I’m glad my VCR malfunctioned during the Italy episode, because I think I would have also felt “you wasted an episode on that?” had I seen it. I’m not sure about the ending, it needed two hours and felt rushed to me…plus, I expected a less tangible menace - not that WR&H wouldn’t go out to get them, just not with an army of demons…something more subtle. Demons who have basically manifested as a law firm are subtle.
Watching Lorne do what he had to do - was just too much.
I think I expected them to use Illyria’s knowledge of the 3 somewhere along the line - and they never did. That bothered me (much like the “m?” in Buffy hint that went nowhere). I was very disappointed in how Wesley died - not that he died, but that his weapon was so pathetic. (A fireball? He brought a fireball? What the hell is that? An actual, non-mystical blowtorch would have been a better choice). I absolutely loved the symmetry of his dying in Fred’s arms.
“Can I deny you three times?” and “effulgent” - I love Spike.
And yes, I was pissed at the WB’s nasty little end tag. Bastards.
I loved this episode.
The only false note was the rushed establishment of the Black Thorn, and that is resolutely NOT Mutant Enemy’s fault – they needed to convert a season finale into a series finale but fast. I think they did a good job pulling in things that had previously been introduced so there would still be some continutiy – the ArchDuke, the symbol on the robot assassins, etc. I’d pick this over Buffy’s final episode every day and twice on Sundays. The characters moments felt real here. The saddest thing about Buffy’s last episode was how forced all the character bonding seemed, because they’d given up actually being friends as well as fighters long ago.
I have to say though, I’m surprised to find that two of my favorite moments this season are Lorne moments:
Andy Hallett’s delivery of both of these was note perfect, and that under pounds of green makeup and horns. I guess I just wanted to say Andy Hallett rocks.
I think people’s opinion of the finale is gonna be a direct corollary to their opinion of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. But at least we all agree that the WB blows donkeys.
DocCathode, having read your version of Wesley’s fight, I agree it would have been great if that had happened. But after all the filibuster about how they probably all wouldn’t make it, I would have felt like we’d been cheated if all their plans came off as they’d planned. One of them had to fail in order to make the point that their plan only worked at all because it’s such an insane undertaking and a guaranteed death.
My personal conspiracy theory: the Shanshu prophecy is actually referring to Connor. Biologically, he’s a vampire, remember. And now he will live a normal life, after helping avert the apocalypse. I think the Shanshu was as squirrelly as prophecies usually are; and they can’t be ‘turned down’ – the Black Thorn, as usual in trying to subvert the prophecy while making assumptions about what it refers to, only ensured that it would come to pass in a unexpected way.
You know what I think? I think that they are still fighting as we speak.
I feel so drained right now.
The finale moved me more than anything else I’ve seen in months, and while I am angry with the WB for forcing this situation upon us, I am sated with the results. My hat’s off to Whedon and co. for doing a superb job under the gun. If more people watched shows like this, maybe networks wouldn’t resort to shameless humiliation to get cash.
I don’t know if any of the good guys survived the final battle, and I’m not sure if I care, because it’s not really the end that matters, but how you get there. They fought, and so they won in spirit, if not in fact.
As for the Shanshu, and other prophecies, I think they all have been fulfilled. Angel did devour his son (when he was fed Connor’s blood), and Angel even killed his son (because if undergoing a memory wipe isn’t killing you, I don’t know what is).
Similarly Angel is human in the only thing that matters: deed. He’s got a son; he’s got a girlfriend; he’s got friends and enemies; he gets to look at the sun (even if he doesn’t go play outside during the day, which I hardly ever do myself because I burn); and he sacrifices himself to protect others. If that doesn’t make you human, I don’t know what does.
So he signed a parchment. Big effin deal. Angel’s been as human as he’s going to get for quite some time and he knew it. I think that’s why he was able to do it doggy-style and not turn into Angelus, because he moved beyond the irrational guilt that struck after making love to Buffy.
The prophecy about Angel killing his son was (IIRC) revealed to be a fake, planted by Sahjahn.
Third that! I did give my TV the finger and yelled a hearty “Fuck You!” when I heard that crap from WB.
I was happy to see though, that they had to good taste to let the “Grrr, Arrgh” demon on Joss’s logo finally get his say. For the past season they’ve cut him off so he’s saying: “Hi! I’m Rose McGowen!” That was humorous the first few times I noticed it, but innappropriate for the final final Angel.