While certainly the Angel series has a lot to do with the Buffy the Vampire Slayer series, it is long spun-off now, and I think it merits discussion on it’s own merits in it’s very own thread.
Now, I don’t mean to imply that Buffy can’t be discussed here in the context of Angel or Angel (the show), but I think the Buffy threads will get way too big if they include all the Angel episode discussions as well.
So how about it?
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Anyone care to share thoughts on last night’s episode entitled “Fredless” wherein “Angel goes into full detective mode when Fred’s parents unexpectedly arrive in LA to bring Fred home, but their appearance inexplicably sends her into a tailspin and on the run”?
I’ll reserve comments for now to see if anyone else wants to get the ball rolling…
It is still inexplicable to me why the appearance of Fred’s parents sent her into a tailspin and on the run, especially since even Lorne seemed freaked out by the whatever-it-was the set her off.
Near as I can tell, the other shoe never dropped. Something about how Fred could believe the last five years were all a dream or something until she met her parents? I really don’t know.
And the OP may want to review the rules for including apostrophes.
From what I understood, Fred was in complete denial about the events of the last five years; being held captive, used as a slave, living like an animal, that sorta thing will do that to you. Her parents’ arrival forced her to deal with the fact that her current situation, living with a vampire and a group of demon-detectives, was real, then the last five years were real too. I think it indicates that she’s on her way back to being more sane, more stable.
But, I hope, not too stable. I like Fred a lot. Her dialog is astonishing; her little speeches have been the highlight of the season so far, particularly the “how would you fight if your arms were cut off” and the “effects of a crossbow bolt on a human neck” speeches. She combines naivete, craziness, sweetness, and bloodlust, in a very convincing, effective character.
What amazed me most about last night’s episode was that the writers had come up with a set of parents for her that helped explain her character; how she managed to be tough and sweet and loopy at the same time.
And, need I mention the opening sequence, the Harlequin Novels version of the Angel/Buffy relationship, recreated for our amusement by Wes and Cordy? Brilliant.
I thought last night’s episode was one of the best. Not only some character development for Fred, but for Lorne as well. I think MrVisible hit the nail on the head as far as Fred’s freak-out goes.
I’d like to follow up on the following from Fiver:
IMHO, Lorne wasn’t actually freaked. He did advise her to keep running. From someone who ran from his family, I suppose this makes sense. But also, I think this is an indication of how Lorne doesn’t really care to help any more. I look foreward to seeing where this goes.
Okay, but why did Lorne tell Angel “It’s going to get messy”? Was this just a matter of his own perspective? In the past, he’s always been so amazingly accurate, and last night he seems to have blown it. Either there’s more to come, or he just doesn’t care at all.
And what of the mysterious letter that Fred supposedly sent home? It still feels like loose ends.
I thought last night was pretty good. Fred still grates on me, but one thing that I have noticed with Buffy/Angel characters is that they tend to start very one dimensional (see, heck see everybody in the Angel cast) and then the actors and writers get the character to grow. I hope that happens with Fred.
That being said, I think that Lorne was not picking up on the right thing. The “its gonna get messy” comment didn’t relate to the parents, but to the bug. Fred barely sang, and maybe thats what he meant.
However whenever I have to make up something conviluted to get rid of a loophole, its not a good sign (I’m talking to you Star Wars Episode One).
I think the parents were talking about calling the police, thinking from the point of view of the parents, they thought that Angel and crew were nuts. And they kept obviously stalling in terms of finding Fred, so the parents were freaked out.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Fred the first regular in the Buffyverse to have “normal” parents? Buffy came from a broken home, Xander’s parents were alcoholics, Tara’s were some sort of wacky fundamentalist misogynists, Willow was a latch-key kid, Wesley’s dad is a world-class jerk, Gunn seems to be an orphan (judging from the scenes with him and his sister when he was first introduced). Fred’s parents are still married, love and support their daughter, approve of her lifestyle… These guys are freakier than the giant cockroaches, if you ask me.
My feeling is that those lines were a red herring to make we viewers suspicious of the parents, i.e. are they really her parents, are they possesed, etc. My guess was the “others” they were refering to was Wolfram and Hart, just because they seem to be behind most things. Then when they showed that her parents were who they claimed, the “others” they wanted to bring in were the police, not some mysterious bad guys.
As a W+H aside, in last season’s finale, there was a connection between Lorne’s home dimension and Wolfram & Hart. Was that ever explained?
I thought last night’s show was really good, in fact they’ve all been good this season. Fred is growing on me, she’s just so damn cute. My only fear is the ever growing cast size. Started out with three main characters, now Gunn, Lorne, and Fred are central to the show as well. It’s a good thing Angel is living in a hotel, they may need the room.
I don’t think there is any big mystery behind the letter Fred sent to her parents or her initial reaction to seeing them. I think the writers needed a way to bring her parents into the show to help develop the character, while still explaining why Fred had never mentioned them before. So they have her parents be a reminder to her of what she lost during her imprisonment, while having the letter show she still cared about them and wanted them to know she was OK.
But who knows? That’s one of the things I really like about this show and Buffy, all my plot predictions are wrong, so the show is always a surprise.
When Fred ran down everyone’s role (Cordy=heart, Gun=muscle, …) and later joined the gang after figuring out the bug stuff, I had this image of the Professor joining the cast of Gilligan’s Island. Everyone has their iconic state and they draw on that to help out. Fred is now the science/computer/etc wiz, like Willow used to be on Buffy.
Granted, the Professor would have had to spend 5 years on a real nasty raft, but you get the idea.
Angel is definately more adult than Buffy, together they make a nice two hours of TV each week. There are always these nice little throw-away moments on Angel, like Angel getting excited to get his wounds tended, or the Bus vs Bug, or Fred scaring away the homeless guy in the bus station.
Actually, we have seen Willow’s mom … once. Considering the episode, I kinda wish we hadn’t. But that’s a Buffy discussion and this is the Angel thread.
I suppose. Not terribly helpful, though, is it? I mean, if I asked a psychic guy about an upcoming family reunion, and he tells me it’s gonna get ugly, I don’t imagine that he’s talking about Great-aunt Irma with the goiter, you know? Oh well.
As much as I enjoyed the episode, I think the writing wasn’t as tight as it could be, and the plot lines weren’t explained very well. I know Joss loves his red herrings, but throw us a bone here!
I know what you’re saying Miller, but “normal” isn’t the right word. Buffy’s parents are normal; divorce is very common these days. Xander’s parents are normal; so is alcoholism. Willow’s parents are busy professionals, which is perfectly normal. Cordy’s parents are tax-cheats, which certainly makes them normal.
Jsexton: My guess on the “messy” line was that he was reading how much psychic turmoil Fred was feeling, not what the source was, and assumed it was something more dangerous. <shrug> Works as well as any other explanation.
Ethilrist: Well, I was a latch-key kid and it RUINED MY LIFE!! Sob. No, not really. Still, her mom did try to burn her at the stake.
PatrickM: I know, but I couldn’t think of the right word. That’s why I put it in quotes. I think I meant “TV-normal,” if you know what I mean.
Sheila Rosenberg is not just a physically absent parent, her interest in and care for Willow is absent. Willow’s “I worship Satan” speech was an example of a chronically ignored child trying to get her parents attention (it was also hyperbole, but, you know, television).
I am intrigued by Trion’s suggestion that Lorne is tired of helping. It could be interesting to see him change Caritas to Up Yours.
I wish I had taped the ep, Cordy and Wes doing As SoCal Turns in the teaser was utterly priceless.
In fairness to Willow’s mom, she was under the influence of a pretty powerful demon.
Speaking of which, what ever happened to Amy? She ratted herself in that episode, turned briefly back into herself during Willow’s “when you wish upon a star” episode and I don’t think has been heard from since.
Oh, sorry, this is supposed to be about Angel, isn’t it.
I for one was thrilled when Fred’s parents showed up, mostly because I really like the actor who played her dad. Even though I knew she wasn’t really going anywhere I did a little internal happy dance when she packed her stuff and left, because she is the single most annoying character ever in the history of the universe.
OK, I exaggerate. She’s the second most annoying character ever in the known universe.
have I mentioned that I find Fred really annoying?
Lorne being tired of helping out is an interesting idea indeed. And why should he, really? He’s the owner of a club that demons, presumably evil demons (else why the no-violence spell?) frequent. It could be bad for business if he became known as a helper of the good guys.
On the other hand, he does owe them a few favors, like for the whole reattaching-his-severed-head thing and all. Besides which, it’s thanks to Fred that Lorne got to escape into our dimension from his home in the first place.
(Incidentally, I heard Andy Hallett speak at a convention back in August and he said when Joss sent him the script for the episode that ends with Lorne’s head on a platter, no explanatory notes were included. Apparently Joss loves to kid, and he wanted to let Andy think his character had been killed off. But then David Greenwalt “ruined” it by calling Andy to explain and reassure him.)
