Anglican/Episcopalian Dopers: Help me not look stupid this Sunday

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
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Ok I went to an Episcopal church for the first time and I have some questions, prepare to deal with some pressure ya’ll:

Why were numbers written on the wall on this little board? Were those hymn numbers? I asked and was told that older people would follow through the Book of Common Prayer and look at the numbers to find out what hymns would be sung. But how do you look through the book of common prayer? Everyone there used the little weekly printout thingy; how does one use the book of Common Prayer instead of the printout? Does the church read a different part of the book each day, covering it in a year?

When do people use the kneeling thing? I saw two people only use it, each after communion. When was it historically done? What parts /times of the service? How do you use it–do you kneel ‘upright’ or instead with your rump on your legs? (More indian style?) Why does almost no one use it? I want to look cool and know how to work the ‘system’, so I need some details on this.

For communion, are you supposed to say anything after they hand you the bread crumbs? (Like Amen?) After they give out the bread and the wine? (Two amens?) If I dip the bread in the wine, can I get cold sores or some disease from the guy next to me? (People were drinking out of the same cup). [Toleration of germs is not my strong point]

I saw someone make the sign of the cross when they knelt down for communion; is that standard? It was the only person. I’ve only seen that sign of the cross done in the movies. Is that a catholic thing or not? Do I have to do it to be superfly?

Do Anglicans and Episcopalians have warm relations? Do they care about each other? Is there any difference besides some connection to the English [not British right] Throne? Are the terms in practice interchangable? (I’m not big on distinctions either)

The service mentioned the words ‘Holy Catholic Church’, which was unexpected since I thought Papists and Anglicans hated each other (at least in the movies I see, which are 400 years out of date, oh well). I doubt Jesuits are still hiding out in English basements avoiding Walsingham but why was that there?

The presiding person of the church (the one who gave the sermon) was called a ‘rector’ on the official bulletin, and the ‘pastor’ by someone else there, but from my 400 years-out-of-date knowledge based on As you like it, I thought the title was Parish Priest, and the address “Sir Priest”. What is the true title, what do I call them? Sir Priest? Madame Priest?

(Ok, so my best connection to the Anglican clergy is Sir Oliver Martext, a 400-year old fictional character, but hey, better than nothing.)

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I’m not Episcopalian or Anglican, but I’ve been to services and received communion there.

Basically, “Episcopalian” is just part of the official name of the American national church of the Anglican Communion. It is not called “Anglican” == English due to historical reasons related to how the United States was founded. The differences between the Church of England, Episcopal Church USA, Anglican Church Canada, etc. are similar to the difference between the Greek Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Church. They are in communion, but there may be slight differences.

One of the biggest situations is related to gay clergy, and there are some disagreements in the Communion as to this, and there has already been a schism. This is complex.

Episcopalians, in a nutshell, are “Catholic-lite”. Rites, in general, are very similar to Roman Catholic rites, but always has a vernacular liturgy (never in Latin unless Latin is somehow the language of the people). The church calendar is substantially similar. The sign of the cross is optional. I don’t usually see it, but there is nothing wrong with doing it when you would do it in a Roman Catholic service. Images (statues or icons) may be present, but you should not visibly venerate them as that is not normally done. The “Holy catholic church” is part of the Apostles Creed and is commonly accepted by Protestants in general, not just Episcopalians. In this sense, it may be interpreted as the communion of all true believers everywhere (i.e. the “invisible church”).

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And I believe that the numbers on the wall are actually Psalm numbers, telling you the Psalms of the day. The Book of Common Prayer (the service book, similar to a Roman Catholic missal), always comes with a copy of the Book of Psalms included in the text.

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Some unanswered questions:

Yes, they are hymn numbers. Usually the hymnal is a separate book from the service book (which used to be the Book of Common Prayer throughout the Anglican Communion, but often now isn’t).

You don’t have to take communion (i.e., the bread and wine) if you don’t want to. But I’ve never heard of people getting a disease from sharing the same wine cup.

Practices vary in the Anglican Communion between High Church (which believes in practically everything that the Roman Catholic Church does except for the supremacy of the Pope) and Low Church (which is much like Methodism). The person making the sign of the cross is at the High Church end.

He or she is probably a priest – could be a bishop, but that’s unlikely – but if he or she is called “rector” in the bulletin then you are pretty safe in addressing as “Rector”. Usually people in positions like that are used to being addressed in a wide variety of ways, and will not object to being called “Reverend” or “Pastor” or “Father” – but might correct you if you say something really wrong like “Bishop” if they aren’t a bishop. They also probably won’t object to being called “Mr Smith” or “John” (if their real name is “John Smith” – people worry far too much about the right form of address. However, although “Sir” or “Madame” by itself would be fine, “Sir Priest” or “Madame Priest” strikes me as being a bit odd.

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They will probably be the hymn numbers in Hymns Ancient and Modern, or whichever hymnal they are using there.
You sometimes get on your knees to pray, and the kneeler is for those with bad knees, or don’t want to dirty their clothes on the floor. Often the kneelers are made by church volunteers.
Episcopalianism is a part of the Anglican Communion, but it’s not the same as Church of England.
Anglicanism ranges from Low Church/Evangelical to High Church/Anglo-Catholic “bells and smells” - making the sign of the Cross is definitely High Church and would be looked on with some suspicion in certain quarters as rather Popish.

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And also, female priests are never referred to as “priestesses”. They are priests.

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The numbers on the wall are usually the Hymns. There’s usually just one psalm read (or sung) per service.

The Book of Common Prayer contains the script for nearly every type of service. Some churches (usually ones with big budgets) will just print that week’s script in the bulletin. Others will just give the section of the service and the page number from the BCP, and you can follow along from there. There should be a copy in the rack in you pew along with the hymnal and maybe a bible.

As for the kneeling things: You can stand, sit, or kneel for different parts of the service depending on the season. I’ve yet to figure out the code. I just do what everyone around us is doing.

When you receive communion, you don’t have to say anything, and if you dip, you can be reasonably sure you won’t get cold sores.

The American Episcopal Church is part of the Anglican Communion. It split off of the Anglican Church in 1776. My take is that the split occurred because it could have caused complications if the King were spiritual head of most of the churches in America, but not the political head. Most “Anglican” churches in the US today are ones whose congregation split off the Episcopal Church, and follow an African Bishop.

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The bulletin we used in the Episcopal church I grew up in had an actual “code” - * meant kneel, = meant stand, and nothing in front of the heading meant sitting.

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  1. There is no English throne anymore. There’s a British throne, a Canadian throne, and so on.

  2. As far as I know, Her Majesty only has a formal role in the Church of England, not in any of the other churches of the Anglican Communion. She is the Supreme Governor of the C. of E.

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Odds are the numbers are the hymns for that Sunday, though I’ve seen a couple of churches that put up page numbers along with them. The bulletin (leaflet you’re handed on the way in) will also list them, and when they show up during the service, so don’t worry about the wall board. You’ll find two books in the pews (usually on a rack on the back of the pew in front) – the bigger is Hymnal 1982 and the smaller The Book of Common Prayer. Odds are extremely high that the Sunday service will be the Holy Eucharist, Rite II, found in the Book of Common Prayer beginning at page 355. Everything you are expected to participate in except the hymns and the psalm are found right there. The psalms are further back in the BCP, and the bulletin will give the page number for Sunday’s psalm. The hymns are, surprise, found in the Hymnal. Some churches sing parts of the service like the Gloria in excelcis, and the settings are in the service music in the front of the hymnal, before the first hymn (which is about 1/4 of the way into the book).

There’s absolutely nothing you have to kneel for – standing instead of kneeling is always proper. In churches I’ve been at, people tend to kneel for the General Confession (p.360 BCP) and the part of the Eucharistic Prayer after the Sanctus (p.362ff) – but no obligation to. Also some prefer to kneel while receiving communion. Kneeling ‘upright’ is the traditionally correct position. Do what the people around you are doing if you feel self-conscious, or do what matches your own sense of propriety.

“Amen”, after receiving each, before eating the bgread/sipping the wine. The chalice bearer wipes the chalice clean after each communicant and rotates it about 60 degrees, so nobody’s mouth touches a place someone else’s has touched recently. But if you want to pass on the wine (or on receiving either form of communion), make an X of your arms by putting each hand on the opposite shoulder in front of you; this is the signal to the server not to offer the bread/wine (though they may say a blessing over you, especially if it’s the priest). Don’t worry about doing it; alcoholics and children decline the chalice all the time, so they’re used to it. If they have loaf bread and wafers, and you prefer tp commune by intinction (dip bread in wine), ask for a wafer (less mess/crumbs).

It’s a matter of personal piety. No need to do it. Those who do, do it at mentions of “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” and whenever blessed – including by receiving communion and when the priest says the absolution after the General Confession. Tends tp be very much a High Church thing, though a lot of people at lower churches do it on occasion.

Yeah. The American and Scottish churches of the Anglican Communion use “Episcopal” while the others use “Anglican”, for historical reasons. In America, the right-wing splinter churches that broke off from the Episcopal Church tend to use “Anglican”. We have no connection to QE2; in fact, the reason we’re an independent church has to do with the Church of England’s allegiance oath to George III after the Revolution. Her role is to be figurfehead head of the Church of England the same way as she’s figurehead head of the U.K. government, and outside England she’s just another laywoman member, albeit a celebrity one.

“One holy catholic and apostolic church” is a phrase long pre-dating the Catholic/Orthodox split, to say nothing of the Catholic/Anglican one. It means we’re part of the universal church; like the Orthodox, we don’t cede to the Pope and his followers a term that means “the whole church.”

The parish’s clergyman was ordained as a priest; his particular job is to be rector of that parish. (Try a parallel with being a doctor vs director of a particular clinic.) “Sir Priest” is out, unless he’s a Shakespeare buff with a sense of humor. If it’s a male priest, “Father Lastname” is always good – if he prefers something else, he’ll tell you, but you get politeness points for using the more formal form. “What do you prefer to be called?” is not at all ever improper or gauche, since there’s so much variation. “Pastor” is really rare for Episcopal clergy – you probably heard an ex-Lutheran or ex-Catholic who’s a creature of habit.

BTW, MkVII, “Hymns Ancient and Modern” is very much Church of England – we never see it over here. And while crossing oneself is somewhat High Church even over here, it would never get the raised-eyebrow treatment in America that it might in Evangelical CofE parishes, even in the Low Church parts of America.

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Why were numbers written on the wall on this little board? Were those hymn numbers? I asked and was told that older people would follow through the Book of Common Prayer and look at the numbers to find out what hymns would be sung. But how do you look through the book of common prayer? Everyone there used the little weekly printout thingy; how does one use the book of Common Prayer instead of the printout? Does the church read a different part of the book each day, covering it in a year?

The numbers were the hymn numbers. They are probably also printed in the service leaflet (bulletin) which contains most of the service usually. That would be the little print out thingy. The service leafelt will also tell you what page in the BCP to turn to if you wish. For instance, in my church, the service leaflet does not contain the entire service. At the Eucharist (Holy Communion) you would see BCP and a page number to tell you where in the BPC the Eucharist Prayer is located. Or you can just listen and watc the Celebrant, who is usually the Priest but may be the Bishop if he/she is visiting the church that day.

When do people use the kneeling thing? I saw two people only use it, each after communion. When was it historically done? What parts /times of the service? How do you use it–do you kneel ‘upright’ or instead with your rump on your legs? (More indian style?) Why does almost no one use it? I want to look cool and know how to work the ‘system’, so I need some details on this.

Butt kneeling (knees on the kneeler butt on the pews) is considered not good form but it’s comfortable so do it if you want. :smiley: Again at my Episcopal church we kneel for Confession and during the Eucharistic Prayer. People may kneel to pray or meditate upon entering the church. In some churches people may knees during The Prayers of The People but standing during TPOTP is more common. I alway tell people to just watch and stand when everybody else stands, sit when everyone else sits and kneel when everybody else kneels. You may also just sit when others kneel if you wish. I once skinned both of my knees (I suffer from genetic clumsiness) and kneeling just hurt, so I sat.

For communion, are you supposed to say anything after they hand you the bread crumbs? (Like Amen?) After they give out the bread and the wine? (Two amens?) If I dip the bread in the wine, can I get cold sores or some disease from the guy next to me? (People were drinking out of the same cup). [Toleration of germs is not my strong point]

The only requirement to receive Holy Communion is that you have been baptized. You can say Amen after receiving the bread and the wine if you wish or say nothing. Typically I say Amen after I have received both the bread and the wine but that’s just me. It works. If you are squeamish about drinking after someone, then holding the wafer in your hand for the Chalice Bearer to dip in the cup and place on your tongue is perfectly fine. In some churches the cup may be offered for you to dip the wafer/bread yourself. If you prefer not to receive the cup at all, merely cross your arms(right hand on left shoulder, left hand on right shoulder) and the Chalice Bearer will pass you by but will say something along the lines of “The Blood Of Christ” as he/she does. If you prefer not to receive Holy Communion at all you can either stay in the pew or come to the Communion Rail for a blessing. Cross your arms as mentioned above and the Priest will give you a blessing instead of Holy Communion.

I saw someone make the sign of the cross when they knelt down for communion; is that standard? It was the only person. I’ve only seen that sign of the cross done in the movies. Is that a catholic thing or not? Do I have to do it to be superfly?

Some do some don’t. No one will think anything of it one way or the other. I’m a big Sign of The Crosser but my partner only does it at the beginning of the service and after Holy Communion. I however, make The Sign several times during the service. I am from, if you will, more of a “High Church” tradition so it’s just a natural thing for me.

Do Anglicans and Episcopalians have warm relations? Do they care about each other? Is there any difference besides some connection to the English [not British right] Throne? Are the terms in practice interchangable? (I’m not big on distinctions either)

The Episcopal Church is part of the worldwide Anglican Communion. Pretty much everything is common as far as church services go. There may be a few differences in practice but if you’re familiar with the Episcopal Church service you’d be a natural as say a Church of England service.

The service mentioned the words ‘Holy Catholic Church’, which was unexpected since I thought Papists and Anglicans hated each other (at least in the movies I see, which are 400 years out of date, oh well). I doubt Jesuits are still hiding out in English basements avoiding Walsingham but why was that there?

That’s small c catholic and means the universal church of all believers. It’s part of both the Nicene and Apostolic Creeds. You’d also hear the term in other Protestant churches such as Lutheran and United Methodist churches among others.

The presiding person of the church (the one who gave the sermon) was called a ‘rector’ on the official bulletin, and the ‘pastor’ by someone else there, but from my 400 years-out-of-date knowledge based on As you like it, I thought the title was Parish Priest, and the address “Sir Priest”. What is the true title, what do I call them? Sir Priest? Madame Priest?

He/She is the Rector if the church is a Parish (self supporting) church and the Vicar if it is a Mission (not yet self supporting) church. He/She is also a Priest. A Priest may be addressed as Father or Mother, or Reverend. For instance, I refer to my Priest as Father Jay, Jay being his first name, because he prefers that. Others may prefer Father/Mother Last Name or the term Reverend. If you’re not sure just ask someone or ask the Priest how he/she prefers to be addressed. I promise no one will drop a coffee cup in shock.

sassyfrass I would suggest asking if there is an inquirer’s or confirmation class happening you could be a part of. If you’re interested, it’s a good way to learn more about the Episcopal chuch.

Maybe Polycarp, Baker or other doper Episcopalians will come along to enlighten you better than I have.

The Episcopal Church Welcomes You!

ETA: And I see Polycarp has chimed in already! So, what Polycarp said. :smiley:

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Hey swampbear, thanks for recommending me!

I’m Episcopalian, here in Topeka, Kansas. I’m a member at Grace Cathedral. The following link is our “Get Acquainted” Book, that is place in each pew for visitors. It’s humorous, and will answer a lot of the questions of the OP.

http://www.gracecathedraltopeka.org/Uploads/GetAcquainted.pdf

My favorite part is on the very first page, where a visitor is told two things, One is “Don’t do anything that makes you feel uncomfortable, no matter what anyone else is doing”

But the most important is that any Christian is welcome to take Communion. Before the Eucharist we are told “This is not the Episcopalian’s table, but the Lord’s.”

Of course another congregation may be different, but probably not too much.

If you would like, PM me with any questions.

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They have Episcopalians in Kansas?

What is confirmation in the Episcopalian church? I thought that was Catholic. Does a baptised person need confirmation? What happens? Sounds like kids studying for years a catechism or such.

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Also why is Sir Priest out? Wasn’t that the address? Why did it stop?

[Modernization is not my strong point either]

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Just Baker. She is the only Episcopalian in Kansas. :smiley:

Confirmation in the Episcopal Church is the laying on of hands by a Bishop. It can be seen as the reaffirmation of one’s baptismal vows and the affirmation of one’s Christian faith. This is a brief summary of confirmation in the Episcopal Church.

Fun fact. During the process of Confirmation, the Bishop lays hands on the Confirmee and may also make the Sign of The Cross on the Confirmee’s forehead with Oil of Chrism. Also, he/she may give the Confirmee a light tap on each cheek to “drive Satan away.” So, if you are confirmed in the Episcopal church, when someone says “Ima slap hell out of you” you can say, “too late, the Bishop already did!” :smiley:

ETA: Sir Priest sounds kinda weird. Especially is said Priest is not a Sir.

Is Confirmation absolutely necessary? IMO no but it’s a way to learn more about the church and make that public statement. Confirmation classes vary by church. At my church it’s typically once a week for about six weeks for about an hour. YMMV at other Episcopal churches.

Plus you get a reception with all kinds of good munchies afterwards and there may even be champagne punch! We Episcopalians like to celebrate these kinds of things.

ETA: Sir Priest sounds kinda weird. Plus said Priest may not even be a “Sir.”

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Oh and just for fun, The Top Ten Reasons To Be An Episcopalian.

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I’m no expert in Christian traditions, but I’ve never heard any Christian say “Sir Priest” ever. I’ve heard “father,” “reverend,” “pastor,” “minister,” “brother,” and all kinds of other things, but never “sir priest.” I can’t even recall hearing it in historical dramas.

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I’m not sure why this is surprising; though I self-identify as atheist now, I grew up in Kansas going to an Episcopal church (St. Cornelius, patron saint of cattle, in Dodge City).

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Just to reiterate that there is NO requirement for kneeling; standing is perfectly acceptable. In my church it’s divided about half and half. Interestingly, the more kneeling there is in a congregation, the less likely the congregation is to grow. {C. Kirk Hadaway, Facts on Episcopal Church Growth, 2005.} Do whichever you like…no one will complain. (I am a stander. No one seems to object.)

As for connections between Anglicans and Episcopalians–you will find sharp divisions here. I for one have absolutely no interest in the Anglican Communion and find it frustrating when Episcopal leaders seem interested in preserving it at all costs. But I recognize I am very far from many other folks where this is concerned.

Finally, rules for who-can-take-communion do differ considerably from one church to another. Our church has what they call a completely open table–anyone who wishes to take communion can do so, baptized or not, Epsicopalian or not, Christian or not, and this is announced “from the pulpit” as well as printed in the bulletin each week. My understanding is that this position is slowly growing within the Episcopal church in general.

Ulf, Clerk of the Vestry

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#7 on that list was quoted to me when I was taking classes before I joined the Episcopal church.

“Being Episcopalian means you don’t have to check your brains at the door” I liked that.

See, I grew up Missouri Synod-Lutheran, a very conservative, literalist church body. Heck, women still aren’t voting members of the congregation where I was raised. My seventy-nine year old mother, a member of that congregation all her life, has never been to a Voter’s Meeting. And all the servers and clergy are male of course. But oh boy, as usual most of the Sunday School teachers are women, I never could figure that out.