Ok, so I’ve agreed to go to an Episcopal service with a friend this weekend. I’ve done some hunting on the web for infomation, but I keep hitting what appears to be a standard welcome/information/what to expect page for people visiting an Episcopal church.
What do I expect? During a Catholic service, not all visitors are considered able to take Communion. The pages I’ve seen say that yes, since I was baptized into a Christian denomination, I am welcome to take part.
How does the RC church view this? Is it acceptable for me to partake of Holy Communion at an Episcopal church? Does this cover my RC Mass obligation for the week?
If anyone knows, what are the likely major differences I will see between an Episcopal service and a RC service? Is there anything that I should definitely not do (sign of the Cross, genuflecting upon entering/leaving the church)?
Finally, what is typical church wear in an Episcopal service? I’m one of the folks who has no problem wearing jeans to a Catholic Mass (unless it’s that 10 AM Sunday…then I feel out of place, so I dress).
I can’t tell you what to expect at the specific church you’ll be attending, but I can tell you what to expect if you were coming to ours.
Sign of the Cross, genuflecting, etc: it’s up to you. Many of our parishoners do this; but most don’t. No one would look twice at you either way. I was raised Baptist and it took me a while before I got in the habit of crossing myself or bowing before the cross. My wife, who was raised Presbyterian, still does neither. No one but you will care.
Dress: Go with what you are comfortable with. I like to wear a shirt and tie, except in very hot weather. I see several men (especially older men) in suits. But jeans are not uncommon. A few ladies wear hats but they are the exception. I think this will depend more on the community where the church is located: ours is in a relatively wealthy area of Nashville, so it is a little more dressy than a more rural church would probably be (my WAG).
As far as communion, you are correct. Baptised Christians of any demonination are welcome to take communion. Whether the RC would recognize this as a legitimate, I can’t say – maybe you can ask a Roman Catholic preist what the ‘official’ RC position is.
What else to expect: I think you will find the service relatively familiar. Songs and hymns, scripture readings, an antiphon (spoken or sung), a sermon, liturgical prayers (you can follow along in the Book of Common Prayer), and the Eucharist. At our church, the preist will usually indicate when it is appropriate to stand, kneel, etc.; but you can look around if you are unsure.
My understanding is that, according to Catholic doctrine, Anglican/Episcopalian priests are not considered to be validly ordained, hence they would not be able to offer a valid mass or communion. Therefore the answer to these questions would be no.
You’ll find the Episcopal Church Eucharist to be very similar to the vernacular Mass of any Roman Catholic church, for the quite good reason that they’re based on the same liturgical “outline.”
Custom at most churches is to stand for the opening acclamation and hymn and through the two opening-rite prayers, sit for the first two readings, stand for the gradual hymn, Gospel, and creed, stand or kneel for the Prayers of the People and the confession, stand for the Peace and the offertory hymn, stand or kneel for the Prayer of Consecration, go forward and receive communion either standing or kneeling, stand for the post-communion thanksgiving, the closing hymn, and the benediction and dismissal.
You are more than welcome to receive communion in an Episcopal church – any baptized Christian is, and they don’t check to see if you were baptized or anything. What ratzigersreactionary tossed in his one-liner is that there is an obsolescent standing policy in the Catholic Church, often disregarded by priests and bishops, that its members cannot licitly receive communion from any church not in communion with the Pope – with the Eastern Orthodox Churches, which are in communion with him, being the sole exception. To what extent this attitude will influence your own conscience in deciding whether to receive communion is up to you. If you’re really interested, the handful of knowledgeable Catholics and Anglicans can get into the theological arcana of what constitutes the “Sacrifice of the Mass” in the two churches’ understandings and therefore led to that policy.
Should you decide not to receive communion, you have two choices: remain in your seat, motioning whoever is sitting nearby to go ahead if necessary, or go forward and stand/kneel with your arms crossed across your chest – the signal to the priest or deacon distributing the elements that you do not wish to receive communion; he will then say a blessing over you, sometimes holding the paten or chalice out towards you as a sign that Christ’s presence in the elements blesses you nonetheless – don’t read that gesture, if done, as an attempt to coerce you into communing!
I echo everything Skammer had to say, but thought that what I added above might be useful to you as well.
It could be argued that the Anglican/Episcopal Church did not arise from the Reformation (in the way that the rest of Protestantism, for example, did). Anglicans consider themselves Catholic (not Roman Catholic) and most certainly do practice the sacrament of Holy Orders. That said… I think most Roman Catholics would dispute this argument.
One summer when I was a kid (late 70s), I attended a day camp run by the Episcopal Church in my neighborhood (which was otherwise overwhelmingly Catholic). At the end of the season, the camp had a service planned, and a few of us confused kids went to check with Monsignor about whether we were allowed to attend. He said it was fine, as long as we didn’t take Communion. The Episcopal Church handled it well, with only the Episcopal kids being offered Communion, so no problem.
Other things that I recall - the Mass was very much like an RC Mass, except that some of the prayers were slightly different, and the hymns were sung in a “plainer style” (can’t think of a better way to express that). You shouldn’t feel that out of sync with what’s going on.
Leo XIII said this back in 1894. However, members of the Curia have been at pains to stress that Pope Leo was not speaking ex cathedra and that his conclusions do not shut the door to further discussions about whether or not Anglican orders are valid. Only Cardinal Ratziger, whom nobody thinks is infallible, has had anything official to say on the subject.
For reasons that may be obvious, this is an important question to me, so forgive my belaboring the obvious.
The Anglican (Episcopal) church is not in communion with the Roman Catholic Church. The main sticking point here is transsubstantiation, which is not Anglican doctrine.
The Catholic Church has no problem with you attending this service (IANAP), but going does not relieve you of your obligations to your own faith community. You also should not take communion. Nobody at the Episcopal church will likely give this a second thought.
Polycarp, or anyone else who can weigh in on this question… what of Anglican/Episcopal clergy that move over to the RC Church? Are they ordained a second time, or is there some other procedure that “validates” them for Mass, etc.?
[aside] I wonder if Cardinal Ratzinger would prefer a return to his office’s previous name… :rolleyes: [/aside]
I just skimmed the Catholic Encyclopedia article, and, while I’m not interested in hijacking this threat into a polemic as between Anglicans and Catholics, there’s quite a lot missing from it on our side – as for example the consecration of Archbishop Laud, in which the rather constricted lineage of Parker’s succession was specifically modified by calling in bishops from other lines of succession, notably the Irish, the independent Episcopal Church of Scotland line of succession, and the lineage through the Old Catholic Churches – the latter two of which every Bishop of the Episcopal Church in America have.
As for intent, I doubt strongly that any of the Apostles “had the formal intention of creating a priest who would conduct the sacrifice of the Mass” – that’s a pious distinction that didn’t arise until the 1200’s when heresies regarding the Eucharist brought about the Catholic definition of what the Mass entailed.
But despite the length of the article, there is much that ought to be said to provide a truly balanced view that is not there.
I don’t say this to be argumentative but simply to alert you to the fact that despite the article’s intent to provide a balanced view of the question, it is missing some significant data to do so.
Almost everybody but esp. polycarp/ and colibiri answered the OP well, saying what I wish I had said had I been quicker on the server. I attended an Episcopal wedding service last summer and was struck by the similarities with the RC Mass. Reading Polycarp’s 1st post I see that this might not be standard and YMMV.
But FWIW I would add (to that 1st post) that A. they received communion kneeling down B. throughout most of what in RC mass is the “Liturgy of the Eucharist” the Priest had his back to us, as opposed to facing the congregation C.the Lord’s Prayer included the bit about “For thine is the power …” said by the whole congregation
I appreciate the differing opinions and the information. So, I suppose I’ll go to Saturday evening Mass since this is on Sunday. Polycarp, I knew I’d get an excellent explanation from you.
Mr. Moto, I got the feeling from the sites I had read that transubstantion was a sticking point - just because of the way Holy Communion was described. And ratzingersreactionary, sorry about that. Didn’t mean to scare you into a heart attack there.
Just to be clear, I have absolutely no interest myself in the controversy, and who’s right and wrong. My only intent was to provide information on the “official” Catholic view, to the extent that the Catholic Encyclopedia can be considered “official.” (I am a former Catholic with 12 years of religious education, but now am non-religious.)
I attended the funeral of a neighbor which was held at an Episcopal Church. I am Catholic.
I was very surprised at how closely the Episcopalian service follows the Catholic service. I was very comfortable standing, sitting, kneeling, and I responded automatically whenever the congregation was to respond.
My participation was so genuine, the women seated next to me were surprised when I did not go up to receive Communion.
Since the Episcopal Church is not in full unity with Rome, I did not feel it was appropriate for me to receive Communion. Their teaching on the Real Presence is different than the Catholic Church. Since I understand the Catholic teaching of Transubstantiation and I accept it, I did not feel that it would be appropriate for me to accept the Episcopal communion. It is not because of Episcopal teaching, it is because of what I believe.
There was no awkwardness whatsoever from my decision.
So my advice would be this: if you believe the Catholic teaching, that the bread and wine are the actual, true, real Body and Blood of Christ when the Catholic Priest consecrates them at the Mass, then no, you should not receive communion at an Episcopal service.
~VOW
How so, when this is also what Episcopalians, as a rule believe?
I’d agree that a Catholic whose scruples are aroused by the distinctions between the Catholic understanding of the Mass and the Anglican understanding of the Eucharist, or who intends to abide by the traditional teaching that a Catholic should not take communion at a church not in communion with Rome, should abstain.
But what we reject is not the Real Presence, but the obligation to buy into Aquinas’s metaphysical explanation of it as transubstantiation, which is playing mystical hocus-pocus* with a real promise of Christ. We tend to agree with Elizabeth Tudor, Queen of England, on the subject:
