Well, I’ll try to be more emoticonive.
I still think no matter how much a body reviles any one writer, it’s a good idea to suspend judment until you know more about 'em.
Unless they’re bad mouthing James Joyce, in which case it’s OK to give them the hell they deserve.
I completely agree with this part though.
On that we can all agree. Leran to spell and punctuate you drunken Irish git. 
If you choose to rely on mind-reading over emoticons you’re inevitably going to be judged on your words.
Petard. Hoist. :smack:
[QUOTE=tagos]
Which probably show that you know what you are doing. I think Proulx works best in her expression of character through expostion. Have a flick through Wyoming Stories and see how she makes people seem familiar just by the things they own, have in their cars or homes, or what they wear.
George V. Higgins was the first of the Boston lawyer novelists and his books are, in my opinion, the best examples of everyday dialogue ever written. To be honest I am surprised that he is not held up as an exemplar in every writing course on earth. He also wrote one of the best books ever about the craft of writing - On Writing in which inter alia he says “Stupid people do not write good fiction. Arrogant, smart people write good fiction.” Read it to find out why. It contains Gay Talese’s piece The Silent Season of a Hero about Joe DiMaggio and it will cause you to stop writing too.
And check out Bob Baker’s Newsthinking where a top notch journalist explains how to make stories work.
[QUOTE=don’t ask]
Thanks for the tip. It’ll be winging its way to me in 4-6 weeks via Amazon. I’m a sucker for books on the craft, which is why I’m a much better writer than the bright young things in my seminar group. (That and I’m an arrogant smart-arse.) They positively bristle at the suggestion that they can learn anything about writing - to them its all art and no craft.
She’s a fermentable talent alright. I liked her better before all this sour grapes crap.
Sadly good writers often seem to come up short in the ‘fine human being’ category and this sour grapes crap does her no service.
I haven’t seen Crash but Gay Cowboys didn’t particularly grab me so I can easily believe Crash was a better movie.
But the pudding-eating stuff was all their own, baby!
Count me in with those who tried, *really * tried, to read The Shipping News but gave up on those whiny, self-pitying loser characters (and what I now know is their whiny, self-pitying loser author) halfway through. Shit, it was even less tolerable than any of Anne Tyler’s whiny-loser-characters crap. I’ve only given up on 2 or 3 other books ever. I’m relieved I’m not alone.
If you wanted to be grabbed by gay cowboys, there’s a bar in Nashville I can recommend you.
I was disappointed in Proulx when I saw her diatribe - I think she was too sucked in by all the press the movie got and expected it to win like everyone else. Thing is, the academy got this one right - *Crash *is a much better movie than Brokeback. I saw *Brokeback *Monday night, and was rather disappointed. Sure, it’s an okay movie, but it’s rather slow. Boring in some parts. SpouseO remarked to me that if it wasn’t for the gay angle, the movie never would have been nominated for anything (perhaps would have gone completely unnoticed), which I can’t disagree with.
She put too much stock into all the hype, and now it’s bitten her in the ass.
But they weren’t ‘losers’. The central character was a ‘hero’ because he rose above his limitations to achieve thngs he never thought he could.
I find this whole USA ‘loser’ stuff crap anyway. I prefer to have compassion for people who aren’t cutting it in life through no fault of their own and this guy strives, takes big chances and wrests some happiness from the wreck of his life by his own efforts.
I wouldn’t have read the book through choice though but I’m glad I did. Nothing wrong with not liking something and putting it down. I fucking hated ‘Enduring Love’ by Ian McEwan precisely because the non-loser character made no bloody effort to solve his problems until the end.
He wasn’t functioning at full capacity like a ‘hero’ should. The SN guy was, even if that capacity was limited.
I’d have put it down if it wasn’t a course book.
Sounds about right. She’s got a Pulitzer and that’s worth a whole lot more than an Oscar to a writer in my eyes.
Put me down in the ‘watch me not caring’ camp over BBM.
A little bit far but thanks for thinking of me.
Sounds like the limitations were self-imposed, and he rose up to “almost normal” after I gave up on him. Life’s still too short to read that crap.
The fault, dear Brutus, was not in Quoyle’s stars but in himself. His life was a wreck because of the “whiny, self-pitying” part of his characterization in my post - you overlook that while responding only to “loser”.
But if you really want to know the feeling of wishing you could step inside a book just to smack a protagonist upside the head and tell him to snap out of it, pick anything by Tyler, not Proulx.
4 female neighbors of mine have said the same thing. I’ve not seen it yet since I’m not big on sad romance movies no matter the orientation so aside from the scenery I’m afraid I’d be rather bored.
I liked Crash okay, it was somewhat thought provoking and Annie’s trashing of it is I believe beneath her. Heh, the cowboys I know, and there are a few, remind me that the characters are ranch hands or sheep herders but not cowboys. To some the distinction is important but to be fair this is a historical rivalry.
Tagos, I really enjoyed your discussion with others about SN. I’ll certainly give it a look see. Annie’s comments, while ill-advised, havent turned me off her as a writer.
no - some people just are limited. You can’t expect everyone to be high IQ over achievers and it’s callous to blame people for what they cannot help. All you can ask of people is that they do their best. Which he does, overcoming the odds.
Judge not lest ye be judged etc.
Pulp Fiction was better than Forrest Gump. 2001: A Space Oddessy was better than Oliver, and Brokeback Mountain, Good Night, and Good Luck, and Capote were all better than Crash. Shit happens, Annie, especially at Oscar time. Now shut your fucking cry-hole and get back to work.
If the book prompts a discussion like this one, it’s got something going for it.
John F. Kennedy was given a Pulitzer Prize for a book he didn’t write.
Industry awards are all pretty meaningless outside of their own industry.