It’s EASY to to pronounce “tomato” as “tuh-mah-toe”. It’s EASY to pronounce “laboratory” as “luh-bore-a-tree”. Nothing’s EASIER in the world than pronouncing “Uranus” so as to allow for jokes about “urine” rather than jokes about “anus”.
But if that’s not how you do it, why bother changing?
Fuck off yourself. I have a right to say that it sounds wrong to me, as I was raised to pronounce it as the majority does. (Yeah, it’s a WAG about “the majority.”
You must pronounce it reel-a-tor, huh? Is that why it’s so important to you that you call me a bigot? Do you think I actually say it to their face? I guess that makes me a closet dialect bigot. Aww.
I’m sure you’d find my Texas drawl a bit strange, too.
And just how the hell do you pronounce your user name? I wouldn’t want to pronounce it incorrectly.
I’m sure he wouldn’t begrudge you your Texas manner of speech, or cast aspersions on your intelligence because of it. In fact, considering his clear position in this thread, it’s kind of odd that you assume he even might.
I have to laugh whenever people claim that this message board is full of very clever people.
Linguistic prescriptivism really does seem to be the mark of the half-educated: educated enough to feel ‘superior’ and ‘correct’ in their superficial and–frankly–wrong understanding of how language works, but too ignorant to realise that there’s a whole field out there (linguistics), in which (a) people study this stuff scientifically all day long, and (b) almost nobody takes prescriptivism seriously.
What especially annoys me is the retreat that goes like this:
idiot: ‘people pronounce “nuclear” wrong!’
educated person: ‘not wrong, differently’
…
idiot: ‘ok so you say that people are ok to pronounce it wrong’
NO! Listen idiot, in some sense ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ just don’t apply here - it’s a category mistake.
pdts
They’re saying it just fine. It’s totally correct and consistent within their idiolect.
San Diego is NOT part of the “greater Los Angeles area”.
Jamaika etc. never said he pronounces it that way. I don’t. Nobody “must” pronounce anything the way you want (or don’t want) them to pronounce it–it’s just how they say it, and language is for communication, not for your personal pleasure.
I’ve always said that nobody would claim to be an anatomy expert just because they have a body, or a botany expert just because they have some plants, or a chemistry expert just because they use Drano, but for some reason, everyone thinks they’re a linguistics expert just because they speak a language. It’s absurd.
That one has always bugged me, I even say “Crusoe” when I sing the Gilligan’s Island theme, which isn’t often.
Similarly, a lot of people add a syllable when they talk about Morse Code. It is **not **“Morris.”
Says who?
pdts
Bigotry? Bigotry? Where did THAT come from? That word doesn’t mean what you think it means.
(1) To conform with the majority, making communication better and cleaner.
(2) To demonstrate to your potential clientele that you have the amount of brains required to figure out how to pronounce something you’ve obviously spent a fair amount of time studying (remember we’re talking about Realtors mispronouncing “Realtor” and jewelers mispronouncing “jewelry”)
(3) To show that your profession is important enough to you to take a look in a freaking dictionary and figure out how to say it.
Mispronouncing one word does not make for an idiolect.
Sure it is. You can hear L.A. radio stations from there. People commute it every day. San Diego isn’t part of Los Angeles, certainly, but that’s why I used the word “greater.” It expands the scope. Of course it’s part of the greater L.A. area.
Prescriptivism, by the way, only has a negative connotation to a certain number in this thread. It is not automatically off base.
I hate it when someone says the with an e as in berry.
Descriptivists, would you correct a child who pronounced it that way or just let them go their merry way through life?
I would say, “the way you say it isn’t wrong, but there are idiots out there who will judge you for it … maybe you want to take that into consideration”. Just the same as if my (male) child wanted to wear skirts, or write in green ink, or any other thing that our society randomly decides is to be frowned upon.
But if I judged that the child was too young to understand such a complex message, I’d say “don’t do that”. Ever heard, ‘rules are for the observance of fools, and the guidance of wise men’? My child (temporarily) and you (permanently) are the fools.
pdts
How can you be this stupid? Listen you moron, it’s not that “saying X not Y is wrong but that’s ok”, it’s that terms like ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ simply do not apply.
Consider an analogy: “it’s right to eat baked beans on toast, but some descriptivists say it’s ok to do the other too” - NO! Can you get it yet? “‘Right’ and ‘wrong’ simply don’t apply to choices of food, all else being equal” is how it should go.
Actually, pronouncing one word differently does make for an idiolect. This is a technical matter in linguistics - you don’t get a vote.
pdts
Better than being a hypocrite.
What significant potential for conversational confusion and ambiguity arises from the pronunciation quibbles in this thread?
Do you believe those employing these isolated variant pronunciations really do lack brains? Why would having spent a fair amount of time studying a subject cause you to alter your native pronunciation when that pronunciation is a very common one used by many around you, including others in the same business?
There are many ways to say the words under discussion; that is, of course, the source of the discussion. Indeed, most dictionaries list multiple pronunciations of “jewelry”/“jewellery”, including the one(s) disparaged in this thread. Clearly, the people making the enunciations you look down upon have “figured out how to say it”; they’ve just settled on a particular form not to your liking.
You seem to have an odd understanding of the term “idiolect”. Being a human being makes for an idiolect. Having an idiolect is like having a personality; you can’t not have one.
My wife is from India. She says “jewellery” with four syllables – jyu-well-er-y.
I am American. I say “jewelry” with three syllables – jyu-will-ry
Where I grew up, a common pronunciation is two syllables - jew-ry
What specific accusation of hypocrisy are you making?
That was regarding pdts’ hemming and hawwing regarding my previous hypothetical.
He should’ve just let the kid wallow in his/her own idiolect.
Ah yes, better to be all out guns blazing ‘there are no subtleties or pragmatics to take into account, my way or the highway’ than to acknowledge that that the issue is a wee bit complicated, and that your example brings some of that out? You certainly seem to favour certainty and conviction over thoughtfulness.
Better to be a hypocrite than a mini-George Bush, I think.
pdts
And that’s exactly what I would do, were the child old enough to understand the following message:
“say it how you want, there is no right way… but there is an arbitrary socially preferred dialect, and, just like people not wearing dresses, people will judge you for it if you don’t conform”.
pdts
Ooh, you knew just how to really get me didn’t you?