Then maybe they should keep their traps shut?
Who is asking for that category?
And your belief in the oscars as a pure meritocracy is… adorable.
Yes, but that fact is based almost solely on the racial issues in this country, namely White supremacy.
Probably not, but I think those few exceptions are not really a large part of the picture.
But you have no idea if you are maximizing profits if you just repeatedly do the same thing. I agree that studios are very conservative, but I don’t think there is any evidence the paths they’ve taken actually maximize profits. For example, most sports leagues were segregated at one point, and there was a common theory that people wouldn’t want to watch Black athletes. Yet, after integrating, sports are more popular than ever even adjusting for audience size. Now, I cannot imagine anyone truly thinking an all-White league would be more profitable even though plenty of people thought that at the time.
You’re probably right, but I have two questions: how do we know that, and why is one functionally better than the other? Why should movie fans care if they are bad people or just weak people being held “hostage” by bad people?
…when they can provoke this sort of reaction from random people on the internet? I say let them talk as much as they like.
Why?
I’m not talking about the studio. You’re the one who wrote this post, so I’m talking to you. You’re the one who seems to be upset that the thought that white Steve Jobs would be played by a white guy…and if you’re not bothered by it, then what are we debating about? If you’re not bothered by it, then we are in agreement, right?
Thank you, you get my point now. It isn’t about race, which is not the thing special in my eyes…the accuracy is. You’re not reading the rest of my posts or purposefully ignoring them. I have already said many times that other characteristics matter too and it’s not about race. You’re the one making it about race. I have already said many times that he shouldn’t be played by a woman either, or a dog, or a midget, or a one legged man…are any of those things about race? No, they’re not. So you’ve just been proved wrong. You think I’m on about race and I have told you, many times now, that I’m not. You’re the one that is hung up on the race thing and I don’t know why.
This is a moot point. A white, English-speaking actor works because one wouldn’t know if they were German or not unless told (or unless they knew beforehand)…but if it looks right or close enough, great. In case of a black guy playing him, it would be a clear in inaccuracy. … just like having a legless man would be, but if you gave him a fake leg to use with during the role, great…no problem there, because he’d appear to have two legs, which Steve Jobs had.
No, because that can be done with acting, it’s has nothing to do with a physical appearance.
You’re the one making it about race, not I.
Aside, to others: I don’t know who Solomon Northup is, but if he is a real person and was black in real life, then I wouldn’t be surprised if he was played by a black guy in a movie. If he was played by a white guy in a movie, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear people go “Huh, but Solomon was black in real life…what else did they change in this movie, I wonder?”. In either case, it’s silly to make it a racial thing.
That said, the FANTASTIC FOUR movie that came out earlier this year wasn’t a successful hit, despite Michael B. Jordan’s best efforts at playing Johnny Storm.
Nobody seems to think he should’ve gotten award nominations for that one.
(Then again, probably no one involved in that should’ve gotten anything for it.)
Who told you my secret for a good Sat night? 
It’s not that Jobs is played by a white guy, it’s that Jobs must be played by a white guy. Maybe Paul Giamatti is a lot shorter than Jobs, but he’s a great actor, and he’d probably do a great job with a good script and director. In this case, why would Giamatti’s height presumably be no problem, but an actor with dark skin would be a problem?
If a one legged actor had a convincing prosthesis, would you really have a problem with him playing Jobs (apparently not, by your answer below)? If Peter Dinklage would play a great Jobs (and he probably would), would you call that a big mistake in casting? Hell, if Tilda Swinton in drag could play him and do a great job, would that be a big problem? If so, why? It’s acting – it’s make believe. And if those wouldn’t be a problem, why wouldn’t a black actor playing him be okay? Why are certain characteristics “okay” to differ from reality, but other characteristics aren’t?
But why are differences in height, or facial structure, or hair color/features, or hairiness, or a myriad of other superficial characteristics presumably “acceptable” and “look right or close enough”, but differences in skin color are/do not?
If a character’s race is not an intrinsic part of the story in any way, why does it matter if someone from a different race plays him?
Was it a problem when Denzel Washington played a Shakespearean role of a white (Aragonese) character? If not, why was this okay but it wouldn’t be okay for a black actor to play someone like Jobs?
Actually, I’m wondering how and why this got to “Dark skin would be a problem” at all. It wouldn’t be, at least for me.
My original point, which I still hold, is that “I just wouldn’t be surprised if a movie had Steve Jobs played by a white guy since he was, you know, white in real life”
The original thing I was replying to was someone expressing puzzlement why someone white had to portray Steve Jobs. My answer was “Why are you puzzled? Steve Jobs WAS white, after all, so it shouldn’t be a surprise.”
Now do you think that seeing a white guy on the screen, playing Steve Jobs is AMAZINGLY HORRIBLE, SURPRISING, AND OUTRIGHT 100 PERCENT RACIST in itself?
If “No”…then you and I are in agreement. And that’s all.
That’s what I’ve been trying to say all this time.
No to all of them. My point is/was: Do you think there would be at least one person in the audience going “Huh…Steve Jobs wasn’t a midget, haha, so why is Peter Dinklage playing him?”. If there was, would you think that guy was racist?
I’m betting your answers to those questions will be “yes” and “no”, respectively…which, again, we’re in agreement then.
When Malcoolm X is played by Dougie Howser (or Wayne Brady) and nobody complains we will have reached the promised land.
…where actors are judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their characters.
Not at all. Not sure how many times I need to say this. Please go back and re-read what I said.
No, the debate is about the fact that there is no logical reason Jobs couldn’t be played by a Black guy beyond racial prejudice given audiences are generally okay with almost every other fiction perpetrated by a movie.
Yeah, you said that before. The issue is that you are completely full of shit. I can list the differences between Fassbender, Kutcher, and Jobs on multiple pages. I can list the inaccuracies which extend from personal experience and intelligence, to demeanor and appearance. You seem to have no issue with those things because if you did, you never watch any movie about a real subject. If the bar is that the actor must be the exactly same as the subject, then no movie would measure up. Most adults recognize this since the whole point is that they are acting. Your “accuracy” standard is just made up bullshit plain and simple. No one is lying to you. You just cannot admit the obvious thing that race has an outsized importance in your eyes at least as far as movies go.
Yes, but the proof is in the pudding. Where was your accuracy complaint when Jobs came out?
Fassbender looks German, and not incidentally, very little like Jobs. It’s clearly not a moot point if your accuracy standard is to be applied fairly and uniformally.
What a terrible analogy. Even though it’s slightly better than your dog analogy, you are still making a fool of yourself. If you really cannot see how Blackness is different than a hypothetical legless man, I don’t know what else I can do.
Do you think the movie was about Job’s physical appearance? It’s not part of the story being told which is why it doesn’t matter.
As I explained in great detail, the history of casting in this country demonstrates that that is the real issue. Not “accuracy” as you suggest.
And if you’d stopped there, we wouldn’t be talking. Instead you took a perfectly reasonable comment then doubled down on the stupidity.
See you still don’t get it. I am not surprised Jobs was portrayed by a White actor. I am annoyed that people think he HAS to be played by a White actor for nonsensical reasons, yet non-White subjects can be played by White actors on a regular basis.
LOL. This is one of the dumber things I have seen in a while. Not only because it a gross and ridiculous strawman, but also because it’s not even intentional. You honestly cannot grasp a very basic premise to the extent that you cannot even submit a logical response.
You should really listen to your friend iiandyiiii.
Okay, this sounds a bit different then what I initially thought you were saying, based on your previous concerns that the actor “looks right or close enough”, and that a black actor would be “a clear inaccuracy”.
To be frank I thought you were making what is an extremely common error, at least in my eyes – assuming that the socially constructed fiction that ‘black’ and ‘white’ are somehow more intrinsically significant then other superficial characteristics like height, eye color, hairiness, etc., was actually reflective of some deeper truth. Another example to demonstrate what I mean – in our society, mixed-race black and white people are far more likely to socially identify and be identified as “black” then “white”, for a variety of social and historical reasons (most of which probably are sourced from historical white supremacist practices). But there’s no good reason (aside from social conventions that come from historical racism) why Boris Kodjoe could play Frederick Douglass and no one would bat an eye, but casting him as George Washington would become weird (to many/most), even though Kodjoe is as “white” as he is “black”, in terms of ancestry.
Another way to say what I’m trying to get at: a worthy societal goal is for “black” and “white” to be no more distinctive, socially speaking, then Irish and Italian. So when things like the social fictions that both contribute to and are partially caused by media industry “decisions” that black performers are only suitable for a limited number of roles, we should recognize them and point out that these are bad things that, ultimately, should change.
As I said above, I don’t know how all of this came from “Steve Jobs was played by a white guy…because he was white”. That is pretty much self explanatory, not to mention, a fact. If you disagree that’s a fact, then we have a debate/disagreement. If you don’t, we don’t have anything to debate about since that was the only point I was trying to make.
No, my original post was answering “Why is Steve Jobs played by a white guy/Why does he have to be played by a white guy?”
He doesn’t…but it would make sense because Steve Jobs was, in fact, a white guy…so it should come as a surprise to nobody…
…whereas I CAN see someone being surprised with “Oh, hey, they made Steve Jobs a black guy? Huh.”
Being surprised at it does not equal being disgusted with it or disagreeing with it…but FACTUALLY, it’s wrong, because FACTUALLY he was not black.
By the same token, I would say that being surprised at it is not being racist, as Brickbacon seems to think it IS related to racsim, and which I’ll continue to say is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read.
I should know what my point was when I made my post, and you are wrong. My point was “Steve Jobs was played by a white guy, because he was white”. Beyond that, I have no opinion about anything…other than the fact that–had Steve Jobs been played by a black guy–someone pointing out “But Steve Jobs was white” would not be a racist thing or mean they were racist.
But by all means, if you want to keep going on about this for the next three pages, I’m game. I can keep repeating it over and over if you like.
Respectfully, then what did you mean that a German actor “looks right or close enough”, and that a black actor would be “a clear inaccuracy”?