Anti-God...or are they?

[rjung]

Hmmm, this one slipped by while I was writing my earlier message…

*Originally posted by Beeblebrox *
In this thread:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=106169&pagenumber=1
rjung wrote “narrow minded”?, “place themselves above others”?, “superstitious myths”?, “threat to us all”?.

Not only is this complete bullshit, its bigotry leaves me speechless. How can people tolerate this crap on a board professing to fight ignorance?

Dunno why the new SDMB software won’t include the nested quote, but I’ll just point out that the “bigoted” tone of my message was a parody/satire/riff on the OP of the thread. E.g., I was just taking the original poster’s anti-Semetic attitude and throwing it back at 'im, while putting a general-purpose “all religions are equally (in)valid” spin on it. I’m sorry if you were offended, but there isn’t a “Satire” smiley on this board yet.

what you three don’t seem to understand is that when somebody like rjung mocks “God” he doesn’t just mock bible thumping fundamentalist Baptists like Falwell; but Catholics, Presbeterians, Reformed Jews, Orthodox Jews, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Muslims, and Unitarians. If he mocks “religion” we can also add Hindus, Budhists, Scientologists (OK, maybe no harm in that one), and Zorastrians - just to name a few. That’s a lot of people to hate.

Hate? No. Think they’re spending too much time chasing imaginary shadows? Most certainly. Don’t confuse the two.

However, that might be too close to the obviously ignorant, superstitous beliefs of a few ancient shepards, fishermen, and a certain carpenter who said “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.

You do know that that concept predated organized religion by a coule’a thousand years, don’t you? I believe Confucious wrote something similar back around 4,000 B.C.

[Polycarp]

MEMO

To: Evangelical Atheists of America, Door-to-Door Campaign Coordinator

From: Poly

Subject: You’ve Been Skipping Rjung

We can’t have this! Get on the stick, guys!

[gobear]

If he mocks “religion” we can also add Hindus, Budhists, Scientologists (OK, maybe no harm in that one), and Zorastrians - just to name a few. That’s a lot of people to hate.

Put a sock in it, ya whiner. So some people choose not to believe in your Invisible Friend, so what? How does atheism harm you? Hate, my foot! Nobody is advocating taking away your freedom to worship, nobody is saying “kill the Christians!” Atheists just wish to be left alone.

OTOH, your co-religionists do not reciprocate the “live and let live” outlook, as anyone who has been harassed for admitting his lack of belief can testify.

And who said religion can’t be mocked? Last time I checked, I was livng in the US and not in 16th century Spain!

Grow up.

[Jello]

*Originally posted by rjung *
**You do know that that concept predated organized religion by a coule’a thousand years, don’t you? I believe Confucious wrote something similar back around 4,000 B.C. **

Actually, Confucius wasn’t born until 551 BCE. But he, Buddha, and Zoroaster all predated that certain carpenter.

[armedmonkey]

*Originally posted by gobear *
**Nobody is advocating taking away your freedom to worship, nobody is saying “kill the Christians!” Atheists just wish to be left alone.

OTOH, your co-religionists do not reciprocate the “live and let live” outlook, as anyone who has been harassed for admitting his lack of belief can testify **

Oh fuck off, gobear, that wasn’t my point and you know it. The OP is criticizing the rare atheist who pops in and yells “You’re belief system is wrong, and you are foolish for believing in it!”

You want to be left alone? So do I. I don’t like it when anybody tells me my entire belief system is wrong without provocation, be they Christian, Muslim, or Atheist. If you weren’t so busy making assumptions about me you might have understood that. As hard as it may be for you to fathom, there are people who are harrased for their beliefs as well as people who are harrased for their non-beliefs.

Do you assume all Virginians are the same? No? Then don’t assume all my “co-religionists” are the same either. My “co-religionists” not only include many, many denominations of Christianity, but Hindus as well. When was the last time you were accosted by a Hindu asking you to convert?

Maybe some of “my co-religionists” are assholes, and maybe some Atheists are assholes too. I don’t like to make blanket judgements about entire groups of people. The intelligent adult learns to think a little deeper than that.

“grow up?”

indeed

[rjung]

*Originally posted by Jello *
Actually, Confucius wasn’t born until 551 BCE. But he, Buddha, and Zoroaster all predated that certain carpenter.

I stand corrected – I was confusing Confucious’ birthdate with Chinese history as a whole.

In any event, it should be rather obvious that The Golden Rule is not ™, ®, or © any particular religious belief system, carpenters or no carpenters.

[Denis]

*Originally posted by Beeblebrox *
I have also wondered why some (but by no means all) atheists on this board feel the need to post drivebys mocking religion. I find it odd that they frequently get away with it too. No one can get away with mocking Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc, but mocking Christianity or simply “religion” is often tolerated here.

Yes, and politics get mocked, and taste in music and art gets mocked.:eek: Can’t hurt anyone’s delicate sensibilities, now can we? Seems to me that you are lumping me with anti-religious bigots. Nope, I don’t care what someone’s beliefs are, as long as they don’t try to make them my way of life through law or other coercion.

For the most part, I’ve learned to just ignore it. However, I thought it would be germaine to the thread to do a quick search from the past couple of months to show examples of atheists being assholes in GD.

I don’t recall any atheist saying that atheists can’t be assholes. I MUST attend more Evil Atheist Conspiracy[sup]tm[/sup] meetings!

**In this thread:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=106169&pagenumber=1
rjung wrote “narrow minded”?, “place themselves above others”?, “superstitious myths”?, “threat to us all”?.

Not only is this complete bullshit, its bigotry leaves me speechless. How can people tolerate this crap on a board professing to fight ignorance?**

You got whooshed.

Badtz, Smegma, dropzone, sorry you feel so, um, oppresed, but what you three don’t seem to understand is that when somebody like rjung mocks “God” he doesn’t just mock bible thumping fundamentalist Baptists like Falwell; but Catholics, Presbeterians, Reformed Jews, Orthodox Jews, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Muslims, and Unitarians. If he mocks “religion” we can also add Hindus, Budhists, Scientologists (OK, maybe no harm in that one), and Zorastrians - just to name a few. That’s a lot of people to hate.

No, shitlicker, I don’t feel, “um, oppressed,” I feel pissed off when some drooling cretin treats me with condescension because I don’t share their particular worldview. Doesn’t matter if it’s religion or politics. By the way, ever read the First Amendment and wonder why there are so many legal, legislated references to God? Kind of funny isn’t it? Look at our money, our Pledge of Allegiance (which, when originally written by a Baptist minister, had no references to God). How about political campaigns and speeches that kowtow to the worst common denominator in religion to hustle votes? Makes the First Amendment rather ironic. And really, I don’t hate religious people. Some of my family and freinds are religious!

It is also hard to believe that these groups have banded together with THE MAN to hold atheists down. Maybe some of these groups have also suffered from similar “willfully ignorant bigotry” about their beliefs as you have. And maybe their beliefs shouldn’t be mocked so lightly.

I don’t recall ever posting, or even thinking that people band together with THE MAN to hold atheists down. Fuck you for the condescension, by the way. Most atheists I know, and those whose websites I visit, feel bitter to a greater or lesser degree about the intolerance that seems to be ingrained in this culture toward those who reject religion. The attacks on religion arise from this bitterness. Here’s an experiment: Tell someone you don’t know very well what kind of music you like and why. It will probably result in an interesting discussion. Now, tell the same person you are an atheist. You run a significant risk of being judged amoral, undisciplined, antisocial, and a poor, misguided fool.

However, that might be too close to the obviously ignorant, superstitous beliefs of a few ancient shepards, fishermen, and a certain carpenter who said “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.

Yes, there is very profound wisdom to be found in the Bible. There is also some of the most horrifying cruelty in the name of God in the Bible. Have you read it cover to cover? There is also no historical proof for “a certain carpenter,” but there is plenty of reason to believe it’s just another myth taken from other religions. And yes, “do unto others” predates Christianity.

[dropzone]

*Originally posted by Beeblebrox *
Badtz, Smegma, dropzone, sorry you feel so, um, oppresed, but what you three don’t seem to understand is that when somebody like (name deleted because there are several names that could be used more accurately) mocks “God” he doesn’t just mock bible thumping fundamentalist Baptists like Falwell…

Actually, I agree to a great extent. There is an element of kneejerk anti-religiousness in some of our members that angers and offends me.

If he mocks “religion” we can also add Hindus, Budhists, Scientologists (OK, maybe no harm in that one), and Zorastrians - just to name a few.

While I don’t agree with Scientology, I fear you are jeopardizing your own position by throwing a dig at them.

It is also hard to believe that these groups have banded together with THE MAN to hold atheists down.

Actually, there has been a history of OVERT anti-atheism in this country, often supported and even initialized, generally locally and not nationally, by THE MAN, as you so colorfully describe him. :rolleyes: This has lessened in recent decades and I don’t consider a manger in the town square to be an attack on my lack of beliefs, especially if my cheapskate beliefs aren’t attacked by my taxes paying for it. The “oppression” I described is more subtle. I work with and for some fundamentalist Christians. Too public an explication of my beliefs could endanger my job or future promotions. A belief in the Freedom FROM Religion is not as strong as a belief that you can believe in any religion you want as long as you believe in one.

[Miller]

My “co-religionists” not only include many, many denominations of Christianity, but Hindus as well. When was the last time you were accosted by a Hindu asking you to convert?

Actually, about seven months ago. Some dread on 19th Avenue in San Francisco was handing out cheapo copies of the Bodhisvata. He was pretty soft sell, though. Judging by the odor, he’s recently smoked enough weed to hot-box the Astrodome, and seemed to have gone completely non-verbal. I wish more evengelical Christians would follow his lead. Certainly the Muni Mormons would be less aggravating if they sat there staring into space with a big, unfocused grin on their faces, instead of looming over people in aisle seats, trying to win converts by giving them an unobstructed view up their nostrils.

[Angel_of_the_Lord]

*Originally posted by gobear *
**
Put a sock in it, ya whiner. So some people choose not to believe in your Invisible Friend, so what? How does atheism harm you? Hate, my foot! Nobody is advocating taking away your freedom to worship, nobody is saying “kill the Christians!” Atheists just wish to be left alone.

OTOH, your co-religionists do not reciprocate the “live and let live” outlook, as anyone who has been harassed for admitting his lack of belief can testify.

And who said religion can’t be mocked? Last time I checked, I was livng in the US and not in 16th century Spain!

Grow up. **

Not all atheists are live and let live. I get no end of shit from a couple of my friends who’re atheists simply because I’m a theist, and will defend others’ beliefs as, if not valid, at least understandable and deserving of respect. Also, I’ve met Christians who are “live and let live.” You know, the kind who either say “believe whatever you want,” or make one, and only one, small attempt at conversion.

Yeah, there are times when Christians (and I’m sure other religions would have the same effect, but I’m exposed to Christianity almost exclusively here) really piss me the fuck off with their intolerance. But there are also times when atheists piss me the fuck off in their lack of ability to just let me BELIEVE without pestering me constantly.

Christ, I am so SICK of this attitude, this presumption that one group is somehow innocent, and another group is somehow completely intolerant and wrong-headed. There are jerks in every religion/lack thereof. Yes, atheists have endured opression, and are still fighting it today. But the fact that a group has been oppressed doesn’t void that group of jerks.

I have no great love for religion, yet I do feel that one can get away with attacking it here moreso than they can get away with attacking atheism. This is, of course, assuming a reasonable amout of criticism, not lolo level insanity. It’s the byproduct of living in a more tolerant world; occaisionally, tolerance is thought of as “always championing the little guy.” ::shrugs:: But I guess I’m willing to put up with; it’s a fair price for tolerance.

Just, jeez. . .all a lot of Christians want to do is believe. Just like a lot of atheists just want to be left alone to not-believe.

[gobear]

What the theists in the crowd fail to understand is that YOU are the majority–you rule! OK, in this crowd you might get some razzing, but overall, being a theist is the status quo. Christian bookstores, Jesusfish, and “I (heart) Jesus bumperstickers are ubiquitous. All our politicians pay at least lip service to religion. If you say, " I love the Lord!” in a room, you’re liable to at least get one or two amens from the crowd.

Atheists are considered odd in our society. Admitting one does not believe in God will get, at the very minimum, dark looks and earnest pestering by the religious, as shown in the OP.

Hey, I don’t like drive-by atheist jerks either, but to poormouth and claim to be a fuckin’ victim of mean ol’ atheists in the most religious nation in the Western world is a laugh.

Oh fuck off, Gobear…

Oh baby…yeah… I love it when you talk dirty…

[super_head]

*Originally posted by ringmaster *
Why do these so called “Athiests” on the message boards and other places give a fuck about what other people think about God? They must be having a really bad internal conflict, otherwise, they wouldn’t be posting on the board asking about belief in God. If they have all these questions, why don’t they go read the Bible? Duh.

Because you are dumb.

Well, it is the Pit after all, and the rest of you took all the good responses.

[Badtz_Maru]

I don’t feel particularly oppressed by Christians, I was just explaining how SOME atheists feel. There was only one law that I felt was unjust that was causing some grief for me and that one had more to do with racism (at least when it was first made) than religion, and it doesn’t bother me anymore since I quit smoking pot Monday. I have mixed feelings on religion myself, which I keep mostly to myself IRL. I respect a lot of religious people, most I’m abivalent towards, and I realize the few I hate are not truly representative of the majority.

See, I try to understand how people who think differently from me feel and interpret their actions by what THEY think, instead of what I think. If I had a friend or family member who was religious, concerned for my spiritual well-being, and tried to convert me because they thought I was going to Hell, I’d realize that they were trying to save me from a horrible fate and couldn’t get to annoyed by them. If they tried to stop me from doing what I want to do because of their religion it would be aggravating, though.

[Badtz_Maru]

I don’t feel particularly oppressed by Christians, I was just explaining how SOME atheists feel. There was only one law that I felt was unjust that was causing some grief for me and that one had more to do with racism (at least when it was first made) than religion, and it doesn’t bother me anymore since I quit smoking pot Monday. I have mixed feelings on religion myself, which I keep mostly to myself IRL. I respect a lot of religious people, most I’m abivalent towards, and I realize the few I hate are not truly representative of the majority.

See, I try to understand how people who think differently from me feel and interpret their actions by what THEY think, instead of what I think. If I had a friend or family member who was religious, concerned for my spiritual well-being, and tried to convert me because they thought I was going to Hell, I’d realize that they were trying to save me from a horrible fate and couldn’t get to annoyed by them. If they tried to stop me from doing what I want to do because of their religion it would be aggravating, though.

[dropzone]

Hell, I don’t feel all that oppressed, either, but I also don’t take chances. I leave the Darwinfish off as much because I don’t want to hurt my friends’ feelings as because I don’t want somebody smashing my windows because I pissed them off. I lived within a few blocks of Wheaton College (Billy Graham’s alma mater, and he was quite liberal by their standards when I lived there) for too long to ask for trouble.

I was terribly disappointed in the days of “Have you been saved?” when replying, “Sorry, I’m a Catholic and unless your church has snake handling and speaking in tongues it won’t be nearly weird enough to appeal to me,” stopped working. Then “Sorry, I’m Jewish,” stopped working, too. It made me a challenge. I never used “Sorry, I’m an atheist,” because I’d’ve had a flock of bright-eyed freshmen decend on me quoting the Bible. That would make me an irresistable challenge.

[rjung]

*Originally posted by gobear *
Christian bookstores, Jesusfish, and "I (heart) Jesus bumperstickers are ubiquitous.

Related anecdote: I once had two guys come out to my house to install a home-security system. One of the guys must have been a devout Christian or somesuch, because as soon as he saw the “Darwin” fish I had on my car, he kept trying to confront me about my atheistic views (I politely declined).

Now, I ask you: has anyone who’s got an “I (heart) Jesus” (or similar) bumper sticker/decal/doodad on their car ever been harassed by anyone about it? I suspect not.

(And for some scary stuff, read this story about how a professor of sociology with a PhD got persecuted by an entire town just because he’s an atheist)

[Bryan_Ekers]

I will now cast an atheist curse on ringmaster.

“C’mere, you jerk, so I can hit you with my particle accelerator!”

[Denis]

rjung, that was a good article you linked to. I grew up in the Bible Belt (West Virginia) as a Catholic. A lot of fundies there saw fit to treat Catholics as “worshippers of the Whore of Babylon.”:rolleyes: I’m glad I didn’t question my beliefs and become an atheist when I lived back there. I saw a lot of that kind of knee-jerk hatred, and had it directed at me, for being “different.” Yeah, I was gonna poison the water supply and corrupt the morals of society because I had long hair and loved reading more than playing sports. Oh, the humanity.

I’ve also had the lovely experience of having people at work confront me about my atheism. I don’t exactly wear it on my sleeve, but if someone asks, I’ll generally tell them. I’m just that way. I like to be open and friendly. Maybe I oughta learn to lie about it or say, “I don’t discuss religion.” Nah, I’ve had way too many friendly, interesting, and mutually respectful conversations with people to let the shitheads get me down.

One thing I am completely intolerant of is someone trying to “save” me at my house. Door to door preachers usually get from me (in a nice tone of voice), “Oh, I’m sorry, I don’t give a fuck about Jesus. Get off my property.” Works pretty well.

I also avoid places of business with the “Jesus fish” displayed. “I really just want to pay for my coffee and newspaper, not explain to you that I got born right the first time, OK Spanky?”

When a preachy Christian tells me, “I’ll pray for you,” when they hear I’m not a believer, what should I say? “I’ll think for you?” “I’ll respect others’ right to live their own lives for you?” “Oh, fuck you and your condescension, you ignorant fuckwad?” No. Usually I reply with something like, “Thank you, I never turn down good wishes.” The jaws drop. They don’t know how to handle that one.

By no means are most of my dealings with religious people unpleasant. There are those, though, that seem to think they should try to persuade me to see things their way, or failing that, have laws passed to make me participate involuntarily in their beliefs. And this is a common phenomenon in America, it is culturally ingrained.

[Badtz_Maru]

Oh, you remind me one way I feel oppressed - I really like those Darwin Fish but there’s no way I would put one on my car. It’s a big ‘Vandalize Me’ sign around here.

[Dryga_Yes]

I giggled at the way he says “so-called” atheists.

Ok, Mr. Atheist – if that is your real religios orientation…