(Note: I’m NOT wanting debate here on homosexuality or religion. I’m just looking for ideas and advice. There’s plenty of other threads where homosexuality and religion and the like are being debated, if you are looking for that, please go there. That’s also why I have this in IMHO. If that is incorrect, I do apologize.)
After one last reading of the threads currently active which deal with homosexuality, and especially the one on gaybashing, I got kind of concerned with the blatantly anti-homosexual attitudes and ideas I’ve heard expressed about homosexuality over the years. Just for a small sample of ideas where I had no idea what any proper response or thought would be:
Back in high school, our class was discussing whether or not a certain author was homosexual. The teacher was wanting to end that part and get on to another subject (given the context, it was just due to time running out, not any anti-gay bias), so she casually mentioned something along the lines of “That’s okay, we’ll read the book,” and immediately a student starts arguing that homosexuality is not okay although the teacher explained that what she had meant was that it didn’t matter whether or not an author was or wasn’t homosexual, their work was still valid.
I was talking with a male friend and they mentioned stories about being strongly flirted with by homosexual men and how that irked them. I worry that by listening it seems like I’m condoning dislike of being flirted with by the same sex, but it isn’t anything bad enough to be condemned, IMO.
I was shopping with a male friend where there were two women in the store holding hands. I was just making small talk about chocolate with them when my friend comes by, we move over to another aisle, and within earshot he starts talking loudly about how eww, they’re kissing (which then they were) and how people would never do that where he lives. I wanted to die of embarrassment there and didn’t see much recourse, aside from dropping the friend like a hot potato then and there, which wouldn’t have been the greatest idea.
Does anyone else have any other interactions with events where it’s just not certain whether or not there is anti-homosexual bias or maybe where there’s not really one specific acceptable way to react? Have you been in situations where you’re expected to assent to or be silent around possibly anti-homosexual ideas, and how did you respond?
There was a time in my life when I carried around pictures of Matthew Shepard and whenever someone displayed anti-homosexual bias I would hand one to them and say something to the effect of, “Why would someone choose a lifestyle when things like this have the potential of happening every day?”
Now I just take it like a laugh, I guess. I don’t date because I’m far too picky to get together with any of the miscreants who attend my school [seriously, half of them smoke pot between every class and the other half don’t shower regularly], so as far as most of society is concerned, I could be sexually attracted to fish.
Therefore, I have a tendency to randomly, jokingly flirt with everyone. I don’t think I’ve ever flirted seriously. It’s really amusing, watching people try to figure me out.
Depends on the situation - sometimes, bringing it up at all gets you beat up or worse.
But, in situations where I feel relatively safe, I’ll usually try to educate or difuse the situation with a partly humorous response.
Someone starts talking something like, “Dude, did you see that faggot checking you out?” I’ll say something like, “Now boys, it’s 2002, let’s appreciate that you’re BEING checked out and not worry about who’s doing it, 'K?”
Or when someone asks me if I’m married (making the constant assumpiton that everyone’s straight) I usually respond with something like, “No, they don’t let my kind get married - except in Vermont and Canada.” That usually confuses them enough that a conversation ensues where I can get a little education squeezed in.
There have been a few situations where I’ve been in enough of a “mood” that when someone makes a vast, sweeping generalization about gay people, I’ve jumped in with an indignant “EXCUSE ME? What did you just say??” while getting in their face - but I don’t so that very often, it can lead to what I mentioned off the top - getting beat up.
Well, if I feel I have the opportunity to do a little educating (“Did you know that I was gay when you said that?”), I’ll do so. Otherwise, like if it’s just some random asshole on the street, I’ll just try for a witty riposte.
I work on a Navy base with a bunch of homophobic men (all civilians). As an aside, some years back, we had an engineer there who was gay. I had no idea. He’d been transferred to Oklahoma and one night he was beaten to death just outside his apartment. I overheard one of my coworkers say the police thought he’d been attacked because he was gay - that was how I found out.
Anyway, every once in a while, I’ll hear my coworkers mention Scott, and inevitably it’s in a conversation about gays. I can’t believe how hateful some of these people are. I haven’t said anything yet, but I don’t think I can ignore them any longer. The problem is when they start spouting their idiocy, I get so angry I can’t think straight (so to speak). Morons.
It’s as if their personal manhood is threatened because there are gay people in the world. Like they’re hot enough to get that kind of attention in the first place… :rolleyes:
I like the idea about educating people, but I tend to run in Christian semi-fundie circles, except for when I’m on these boards. I believe in educating people about homosexuality, but I’m still working up to it.
Giselle, quite a poignant point. Good thing to think about what could happen at those times.
TVGuy, I tend to worry about the consequences also. Probably in those circumstances I was in, exempting the one in high school, the worst consequence might have been losing friendships, but being the spineless person I am, that concerns me greatly.
cornflakes, I’m also usually silent. The problem is that that is often taken as implied assent.
matt_mcl, again, great ideas. I’m just scared.
FairyChatMom, I’m sorry to hear about what happened to the person you knew. And really, there are way too many who think that gay people threaten their manhood or whatever. Sheesh.
Being both straight and married, I tend to fall outside this discussion a little bit. Generally my experiences are by acquaintances or relative strangers that will make some slanderous comment about homosexuals. Unfortunately, I also live in a less than cosmopolitan part of the world, and the acceptance level for gays is probably less here than elsewhere.
In my experience, direct confrontation is the best approach when dealing with any type of stupidity and bias of this magnitude. I take offense not because it is politically correct, or because it is an extension of straight liberal guilt (particularly since I’m not a liberal) – rather, I find it repugnant for the simple reason that it is an assault on human dignity. Several of my closest friends are gay, and some of the war stories they have told me have chilled my blood. They are literally dehumanized, and that is intolerable.
When I hear this verbal excrement thrown my way, I usually ask the person if they even know anyone who’s gay. They then give me a good, long ‘f-you’ stare and usually notice my wedding ring (the look this causes is worth gold). It cannot be abided, and the message needs to be made clear – if you can do it through silence, then more power to you – I myself, cannot.
Since I usually win these arguments, I find that it is worth the effort. Of course, I did get the crap kicked out of me once…
My personal favorite are straight guys showing their homophobe colors by getting pissed when they think a gay guy is checking them out…
“You’ve got nothing to worry about pal, I’m sure he has better taste than that.”
We may find it easier to let them flounder within the waters of their own stupidity – hopefully they will drown there, and we can all move on. But until they do I think they should be challenged.
Stupid is as stupid does – I think we should be willing to point that out. But try not to get your ass kicked.
I’m not really privvy to anti-homosexual talk much anymore, being openly gay to everyone… but when I was, I’d typically give the speaker a demeaning glare and walk off.
The most recent example was when my friend Ryan and I were walking from class and he noted that something was “pretty gay”. Jokingly, I said “Hey… what’s wrong with that?” Since then, he’s now saying things are “pretty stupid” instead. shrug
ie/ You can’t beat sensitivity into someone and there are popel out there that are so blinded by their prejudices, no amount of reasoning will work. In which case, I can’t be bothered with them. (Kind of like, I’ve always wondered if it can possibly be effective when a judge sentences someone to take a course on “sensitivity training”. If they really, really don’t want to be there, is any kind of message actually getting through.")
I’m the living stereotype of the “straight chick” meanwhile I’m openly bent. So on the rare occasiona someone, who doesn’t know me well, will make a homophobic comment and I’ll just caution: “Careful, you never know who’s listening and might get offended. We come in all shapes, sizes, colours and creed.” Usually, the person is so shocked to find out that there’s been a queer in their midst all along, that they just shut their yap and deal with the reality.