Some disciple for the cause you are. 
Seriously, answer here, where better? I’m not going to wade through pages of torturous GD threads trying to glean an answer. I asked a simple question that can be answered here without it being a hijack, so why not answer it?
Daoloth - I certainly don’t pretend to assert that any protest movement is idiot-free. (That having been said, I’d like to see outside confirmation that the device was some sort of nail bomb.) But to issue a blanket condemnation of a whole weekend of protests based on what the media chooses to play up is just damn silly.
Probably because it’s not a simple question at all (any more than defining liberalism or communism is) and any answer inevitably ends up in GD territory.
It is rather common for there to be debates in the pit. Olent has said several times “Thats not what I’m talking about”. The question “Well, what is, then?” is a fair one.
And one I’ve answered over and over again. Sorry if I don’t feel like singing that song one more time.
[PCU]
Protestor #1: “Free Nelson Mandela!”
Protestor #2: “They freed him already!”
[/PCU]
Well, I am gratified to see that the clueless demonstrators had smaller numbers than they anticipated, and rather than shutting down DC, made the Friday commute much more convenient than it usually is. Thanks, demonstrators!
I found this editorial piece in today’s Post interesting.
There are some strong criticisms that can be leveled against the World Bank and the IMF, like the inability to funnel private funds into emerging markets with weakened economies, like Argentina and Brazil, leading to possible default with a concomitant chain of consequences leading to global recession. These valid critiques, however, are lost on a pack of 18-year-olds who have never had a class in macroeconomics and hence fail to understand either the true strengths or weaknesses of the bodies that govern the global markets.
And, of course, the vision of a nose-ringed, dreadlocked protester wearing China-manufactured Birkenstocks, drinking Indian chai , and downloading MP3s onto his hard drive made in Taiwan, all the while denouncing global trade, never fails to amuse.
Why are the majority of the protestors young, anyway?
Don’t any older folk think protests work, or are they just too smart?
Depends on the group. Were you part of the peaceful, but unarranged march or part of the chaos that took place the next day? I put those two in seperate categories as their intent was to demonstrate, not disrupt (and they had a definable cause IIRC). The events of the next day were otherwise.
Gobear my man, I don’t think this is per se a strong criticism. There is a serious issue here, but let’s be realistic. There is no easy way, and I am not even sure about hard way, to control/channel/direct private funds movements.
I recently took part in an IFC sponsored private round table on this very subject. The problems discussed are legion. What may be neglected to date is Western education in regards to emerging markets investing and opportunities. The periodic crises loom large because of the inherent bias against new frontiers of activities, and I think an underlying not fully rational bias against 'the third world." I certainly see that problem in my own work.
A valid criticism is more in these terms: IMF and WB tend to too easily adopt the idea that if developing nations adopt the right policies, etc. that funds will come. I am not sure of that, in fact the evidence says otherwise. The evidence, I think, suggests that strong "home turf"bias exists in investing, that this is quite strong if one adopts the “home turf” analysis to define Western investors’ home turf as not just their own country/region, but also the familiar developed world.
I think then, there is real problem in regards to geting the developed world to put its money where its mouth is. However, with the continuous assaults from left and right on IMF and WB, I am not sure they have real leverage.
I don’t know what the answer is. Really wish I did.
we’re on the same page, and thank you for a clearer statement of what I was trying to say.
Agreed, but I think there are degrees of objections to third world investment. Dealing with China or North Korea is perilous because all deals made with these governments are subject to revision by politicians looking for an exta slice, or the local joint partner’s corruption siphons off all the profits, as has happened recently with Pepsi and its factory in Sichuan province.
The trouble with investing in South America is the risk of losing one’s shirt in nations with weak currencies and overwhelming unsecured debt. The maddening aspect is that SA nations have been very good clients, folowing the Washington consensus.
If I were a serious investor, I’d put my faith in SA well before I’d sink any cash in Asia, especially with Japan’s ticking time bombs, er, I mean banks.
This deserves to be transferred to the GD thread. I think I will do that in a moment.
I look forward to it.
Since this isn’t a GD thread yet…
…I blame Jerry Garcia for all of this. Had he not so selfishly gone and died, these kids would all be taking LSD and honing their blunted intellects on the whetstone of raw Grateful Dead-show capitalism.
Perhaps we can clone the band and have them start back up again.
I wonder if he’s on the take like the other correspondent reporting from Cochabamba at the time.
The overwhelming number of people in Cochabamba were opposed to the deal. The specific one that was made, not privitisation in general. The private company promised price hikes of no more than 35%, but the prices ended up double or even triple.
You might want to check this site and the related links for a pretty accurate timeline. I trust that Frontline is not too ‘liberal.’
(bolding mine)
Chris
And then the World Bank opposed the specific privatization plan. Just like you said the general populace wanted privatization, just not that specific plan.
You have no point, colour wolf.
There are plenty of older folks at the protests I go to. Heard of the Raging Grannies?
no.
What do they represent?:eek:
They’re a really fun civil society group of elderly women who dress up in stereotypical granny outfits and head out to various kinds of protest (social programs, globalization, environment, etc.)
Check it out:
From here.
It might help to recognize that the EZLN had not revealed itself before NAFTA was put into action. The treaty is not their sole reason for existence. Also it might help to remember that Mexico under PRI rule wasn’t too keen on freedom to assemble, and was fond of using thugs to keep people in line.