A local church threw a big Easter celebration this year. They rented space at the local stadium, invited everyone to attend, gave out free water, popcorn and cotton candy, then had a helecopter flyby the stadium, droppuing over 30,000 plastic eggs on the football field for the kids to “hunt”.
And everywhere were polite workers handing out flyers. Great way to spread the word, pun intended.
The few times I’ve had JW’s at my door, I’ve found the cool-but-polite approach works just fine. YMMV.
Yeah, if you are a woman, the nudity idea works. As a married man, I’m happy my wife chose the clothed, but with lemonade, route. :eek:
They don’t participate in politics, and they refuse to ever commit a violent act, even when coerced into military service and threatened with jail time or worse. Their worst trait is that they ask you (quite politely) to join them, and go away when you request it.
Not really. The vast majority of biographies are of fairly normal people in interesting times. People who were exactly like hundreds of millions of other people for the most part. I know hat if you haven’t read extensively it’s easy to get the idea that all biographies are of great men, but that isn’t true. Biographies are actually fairly representative of society. Think “Great Gatsby” or “Grapes of Wrath” rather than “James Bond”.
I can only say that you have had an extremely atypical life experience, which may explain why you find it unimaginable that anybody every changes faith. Statistically over half of all people have moved away from their chidlhood faith at some point in their adult life.
I gave you those examples because you said that you couldn’t couldn’t even imagine a single human being doing so. Well you don’t need to imagine it because it actually happened to those people, who you know. Lennon I specifically included because his experience was actually fairly typical of that of many, many baby boomers.
As I pointed out, all my life experience and all the biographies that I have read lead me to believe that at least half of all people undergo a major religious transformation in their adult life. Now that I have bothered to find the stats they support my experiences and are in total contradiction to your experience of nobody ever changing religion in their adult life.
The simple fact is that most people undergo a major religious transformation as adults.
What do you mean again? You said “adult”. The legal and social definition of adult in pretty much every jusridiction in the western world is 18. I am using adult in the normal way. It is you who are being odd and using unconventional definitions by suggesting that adult is older than 30.
A bit, certainly, but once again my experience and reading tells me that >33% of people over 30 undergo a major shift in religious belief. Having children seem tot be a major driver in people changing their spiritual outlook and the average age for first child for suburban couples is around 28.
JWs have absolutely no way of knowing how old an occupent of a house is or whether they own the property or not. Lots of young people rent houses, right?
Once again, my experience tells me that this is completely incorrect. Just as a great many people in their 30s and 40s are changing their political outlook to become more conservative they are also changing their spiritual outlook. In fact I would not be at all surprised if more people experienced major shifts in religious belief between 28 and 38 then between 18 and 28.
I can’t imagine we will ever find stats on this, so I can only say that everything I know and have experienced tells me that you are comepletely wrong to say that people in the 2808 bracket are settled in. I’m in that age bracket myself and I know far too many who were/are not to believe that. The very act of settling down and having kids prompts some major soul searching in most people of that age.
I have no idea what you think this tells you, but whetever you are thinking, it’s based on faulty logic.
You apparently don’t realise that there are only ~40, 000 people convert to the religion ever year. That’s about the same as the number of people who die in traffic accidents every year. I bet none of your neighbours ever died I a car crash either. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, does it? Nor does it mean that your neighbours are statistically less likely to die in a car crash, does it?
All it means is that you are discussing a fairly rare event and the odds of you actually living next door to someone who it effects is incredibly remote.
AS I pointed out, that is not the intent of marketing of this type. Never has been, this marketing strategy works because it encourages people to question their current beliefs and it makes sure that your alternative is being considered by those who are looking for an alternative.
IOW you are totally missing the point. There [ii]is* no right moment. No more than McDonald’s adds are trying to target people specifically when the are hungry. The whole point of these campaigns s that they know that most people will get hungry, and when they do hey are aware that your product exists and have easy access to it.
There’s nothing novel here. Door to door salesmen used to use exactly the same tactic. Commmonly they’d call in the morning and say they only had a few minutes but wanted to leave a sample. Then they’d call back that afternoon or the next day after the customer had started questioning whether there current product was good enough and build on any desire they had created.
That is why JWs keep calling back. The seed is planted and hopefully the desire will grow and when it does they’re there to encourage it.
Again, you can deny that this technique works, but lots of multi-billion dollar organisations are quite cure that it does.
Nope, you’re completely missing the point. See above. Or better yet look at some of the numerous website on effective cold–calling/door-to-door canvassing. You’re effectively saying that door to door sales don’t work because most we know most people don’t actively want to change try a new product at any point in time. In fact we know that cold calling is one of the most effective ways to get people to switch product.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the success rate. Door-to-door was killed by two factors: the widespread adoption of TV and an increase in white collar wages. It simply wasn’t economically competitive. That’s why it was extremely common up to the early sixties but largely died by the late 60s. If you have limited money and number sof free workers door to door remains the tactic of choice. And guess what the JWs have?
No, it’s not different, and the efficiency you are talking about is economic efficiency, not adoption efficiency. That is why the kids selling popcorn is no different wand why it works: low loverheads, high adoption rate.
I’ll repeat: this is a religion, not business. The idea isn’t to make maximum money from investment. It’s to maximise the message being heard and adopted.
This just makes no sense.
What numbers? The number of converts per salespersons readily availble on the JW website. But what does that tell you? You have been claiming that it is less successful than something else? What numbers will allow you to gauge that?
It is the only use of the resources. The only resource you have are people’s time. JWs don’t tithe so there is no money available. What else are yo going to do with people’s time?
Once again you totally miss the pint. The aim is definitely not to generate goodwill. The task is to get a message heard and adopted.
The Salvation Army generates a lot of goodwill. How many people know what the SAs core beliefs are? More importantly how many people convert as a result of all that goodwill?
Huh? This is a total non sequitur? Catholic Missionaries are primarily there to help people, not to gain converts. They mostly work I countries that are already overwhelmingly Catholic. Why in the world would they want to convert anybody
In short, WTF is your point with this statement? I asked is their any evidence at all that more people would here the message through the technique of building playgrounds. Your response does not in any way answer or even address that issue.
Do you have a shred of evidence for any of this stuff that you claim?
If you can’t provide any then we’ll leave it here, The simple facts (supported by evidence) are:
Most adults experience major religious conversion in their life, contrary to you being unable to imagine even a single adult doing so.
Door to door cold calling is one of the, and probably the, most effective ways to change people’s belief systems on a limited budget.
You have absolutely no evidence at all that any other technique works any better at gaining converts.
She should have told them she’s already got one.
JW 1: What?
JW 2: She says they’ve already got one!
JW1: Are you sure you’ve got one?
Her: Oh, yes. It’s very nice-a.
JW 1: Well, u-- um, can we come up and have a look?
Sorry for the double post but I missed this bit before.
This is definitely my experience too. The last lot who came by were a couple of old ladies who made a feeble attempt to refute evolutionary theory by pointing out that a Volkswagen couldn’t evolve into a Porsche. When I jokingly mentioned that cars don’t reproduce, the look of confusion and terror that was returned revealed that they’d gone over their heads one step into the scientific pool. I politely took the literature, agreed to read it (which I always do, although every issue is “There is a problem in the world therefore GOD”) and sent them on their way.
If I’d invited them in for conversation I probably would have broken them, and they meant well really.
You really don’t know your JW’ism, do you?
why all of the scheming and discussion about what to say? I never have had any problem with anybody trying to convert me; I just firmly and respectfully tell them I’m not interested, after 2 or 3 repetitions, they usually get the point. Like someone upthread stated, they aren’t out to annoy you, and they don’t want to waste their time preaching to deaf ears - that’s for the crazies in the streets, and I just generally laugh at them and move on/ignore them. Most religious people mean well, they ain’t out to piss you off.
I saw what you did Shirley. Well played.
Phyllis Burke describes her technique in the book Family Values: She raised her hands to heaven and screamed “Holy Lord God I command you to cast Satan out of these demonized followers. Heal them and let them see the errors of their cult” yada, yada, yada.
They ran away.
This was after having several visits and explaining theirs was a lesbian household and did not want to convert. “Lesbian Jehovah’s Witness” is an extreme oxymoron.
I just tell them I would never worship a god who allowed 9/11 to happen, but they are. Could Jehovah have stopped 9/11? If they say yes, I say “Then why didn’t he? Any person who could have and didn’t is pure evil.” If they say no, I say “So Jehovah can’t do everything What kind of wimpy god is he?”
Some notes:
As for owning a house I am assuming that because the JWs are knocking on the doors of people’s houses. I suppose some apartments are accessible in this manner, around Chicago at least apartments cannot really be gotten into for people to do this. Some homes may be rented, most aren’t. I doubt some young person living with mom and dad will be inviting them in, mom & dad are not likely to be cool with it and junior will not want to rock the boat unnecessarily while living at home.
I never said people do not change and even stipulated it was likely once kids leave the house and get on their own after age 18.
I do not think I ever said older adults never change their religion either. I think it becomes less likely since as people age the tendency is to become more set in your ways. Not impossible, just unlikely.
I think knocking door-to-door is an ineffective way to proselytize (as noted even the timing needs to be pretty good to hit a mark when they are at least a little open to start hearing their message). Anecdotal perhaps but nearly anyone I have ever talked to has at one time or another had them knocking on their door. I have yet to meet a single person for whom it worked and the JWs managed to get a new member. Not saying it never happens. Saying it must be a low probability means of gaining converts.
I think better methods exist for JWs to get their message out and pointed out some means that could be done. Take the small army of people knocking on doors and put them to different tasks. They can still fulfill their mission as they see it via other means.
We use the same tactic on anyone we don’t want hanging around very long. We bring them in and seat them in our parlor. It is extremely formal and uncomfortable. There is really no place to put books or pamphlets, except on the floor. (The tea table is covered with tea items and a globe crystal lamp.) Conversation is difficult because of the bells that play from an antique chime thing. There are constant interruptions of “Don’t touch that!” and “Be careful, that rug cost thousands of dollars!” There are other oddities as well. No one has ever stayed in our parlor for more than five minutes.
Why do you even have a room like that? Are unwanted visitors so frequent that you need an anti-visitor room?
Because it’s fun?
Generally I politely say “thanks but not interested”.
That usually works.
Because it’s beautiful. It’s the first room that catches the eye upon entry to the home. It has a piano, a porcelain French phone with gold plating, a heart-shaped crystal chandileer with roses, a genuine thick Persian rug, delicate lace drapes (made and hung by my wife), gold-leaf framed portraits of our daughters’ bridal paintings, and other assorted things of beauty. Like a painting of a maiden given to us by my sister who got it from the maid who worked for a famous NASCAR driver, who gave it to her. The room is painted a bold red above the chair railing, and gray beneath it. It has a hardwood floor that has been waxed with the stuff used in bowling alleys. The beadboard walls and ceiling are a hundred years old, and the floor is original black gum. We’re kinda used to seeing it, but when first time visitors see it, they usually gasp. When we seat them in the Italian Provincial chairs, which have no end tables, they feel like they are in some sort of museum and even speak quietly.
Ironically, the very next room, which they can plainly see through a wide door, is our great room. It is extremely comfortable, with soft leather couch, love seat, and chair with ottoman, gas log stove, 58" flat plasma TV, lots of tables for drinks and platters. Wide windows all around. Soft, scrumptious made-for-barefeet carpet. Almost 30 feet long, with ceiling fan. They can see this room from where they’re sitting. I suppose, as I think of it, what we do is almost cruel.
Invite them to sit in the parlor, instructing them not to touch anything, emphasizing how valuable everything is. Point out a particular object and explain how rare and valuable it is. Make up some story about how you had to go to the bowels of Africa to get it. Ask them, “Isn’t it nice?” in an effort to get them to politely validate you from the start.
Put on your monocle and smoking jacket. Offer them a scotch or bourbon. Light up your pipe, put on the most pretentious face you can, and begin with, “Please, tell me about this god of yours.” Listen, nod, and give a lot of "mmm-hmmm and “I see” and “fascinating” and “you don’t say” and “go on” as they speak.
After they spill their story, tell them how quaint and primitive you think their beliefs are and “that will be all, thank you.”
I bolded what is an oxymoron if there ever was one.
Then walk to the front door without another word, open it, and glare at them silently. If they say anything, just repeat, “that will be all, thank you.”
God as my witness, I thought rabbits could fly!
Maybe, just maybe because that’s the version of “Christianity” Christ and his followers performed? :dubious: