Anti-Semitism in relation to today's Passion release

The BBQ Pit
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http://www.adl.org/Interfaith/passion_theology.asp

A church puts up a sign that says “Jews killed the Lord Jesus.” No, this church is not in some pudunk, backwards area where fundamentalism can thrive (I grew up in one of those areas, before the flamers start in on me)…this was in Denver, today.

People have been arguing both sides of the “is The Passion anti-Semitic?” argument. I have not seen it yet (and will hold off for another week or so, until the crowds die down a touch), but this kind of message is exactly why the ADL and other Jewish organizations were wary of The Passion. While the show itself may not be overtly anti-Semitic (or it could be…again, I have not seen it yet), the reaction that such shows do bring up are overtly anti-Semitic. For a brief history of assion Plays, go here: http://www.adl.org/Interfaith/passion_theology.asp

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The Jews didn’t kill Christ. The Italians did.

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I saw the movie today and it is brutal. I loved it though because it was fair and unbiased.

To me it reaffirmed what I believe is the truth: The Romans, namely Pilate, and The Pharisees killed Christ.

Not the Italians and not the Jews.

See the movie. It is well worth it and I did not see any anti semitism in it at all.

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FUCKING GUINEA BASTARDS! I’ll kill the next Dago I see for killing Jesus!

Wait, aren’t most Italians more or less Christian now? I guess things got worked out already. Good thing, too, since I like their food. Jewish food, on the other hand… But if I’m going to kill somebody over their food it should probably be the Canadians except they’re so nice, in their passive-aggressive way. I could kill ALL passive-aggressives but I thing that would include me and I’m too passive. Except my wife called me “aggressive-aggressive” once so should I kill her? But I’m pretty sure she had nothing to do with the crucifixion, though it happened before we met.

Never mind.

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I definitely plan to see it. I am just making known that some of the Jewish community’s concerns are actually becoming true. Hopefully today’s incident in Denver is just a random occurrance, but something tells me that it won’t. A few years back, the blood libel myth was resurrected in a Saudi newspaper (Jews used the blood of Muslim children to make the Purim hamentaschen cookies)…the anti-semites are going to take this movie and run with it.

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As they take everything that they think supports their view and run with it and if they don’t have anything handy they make it up. This movie will have no longterm effects though some might see it as an inspiration this week.

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I cut the following passage from the King James Bible, Book of John:

12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar’s friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.

Nuff said?

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Weren’t Pharisees a Jewish sect?

I haven’t seen The Passion, but as i understand it, Mel is staying close to the Biblical account, right? To say the Passion is anti-Semitic is kinda saying that the Gospel accounts of the crucifixion is anti-Semitic. I don’t think any of it’s anti-Semitic. Just because some Jews of the time hated Jesus and wanted him dead doesn’t mean Mel is saying all Jews killed Jesus.

It’s like calling someone “anti-Muslim” if that someone says “some radical Muslim sect caused the tragedy of 9/11”

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This is sort of a storm in a tea cup. Firstly, perception is reality. There are people who want to tell you that they are persecuted as a race.

I’m sure that there are some jews who find themselves discriminated against, but I’m also sure you could find many blacks, or asians, or even white people, for whom that’s true, based on circumstance or location.

Next there is the black and white approach to this topic. Who killed Jesus? (Provided he was a real person ‘OOPS! Son of God’ and he really existed)

Biblical references are pretty emphatic about this. They say: The Romans crucified him! Shock, horror, outrage Yeah, yeah, it’s there for all to see. What else does the bible say? The religious leaders of the time had a hand in it! Shock, horror, outrage x 2. So… If you’re depicting the last hours of Christs life, surely you have to note these events. Seems to me the question is… HOW do you show these events. That’s really the rub here isn’t it?

The bible doesn’t say: Oh those NASTY jews all went and gave Jesus up to them nasty romans, and then they denied him and pulled all kinds of mean nasty faces, and you can tell that they was mean because they looked mean, and if they wasn’t mean, then they’d never of done what they did. Nope, that’s INTERPRETATION, and EXTRAPOLATING the biblical references.

Here’s the truth of this matter. According to the bible, the romans crucified him. The jewish leaders of the time helped and didn’t say boo to put a stop to it. It’s purely speculation as to their motives (But you can guess - Personal choice) and if you’re making a film about these events you may have to offer up ideas that may be unpalatable to the masses, but according to the bible, might indeed be true. (If any of it is)

Storm in a teacup, but as usual, religion get’s many people all hot and bothered, because you’re messing with their mortality and perspectives of themselves and their place in the world.

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I just don’t get it at all, I’m afraid. Wasn’t Jesus supposed to be God? Wouldn’t that make him omnipotent? Why would he feel pain? If the Jews killed him, mustn’t that have been Jesus’ plan anyway, him being omniscient and omnipotent and all? If the Jews hadn’t killed him, how would Christianity have been born? The whole passion thing and the resurrection thing and so on wouldn’t have happened. Shouldn’t Christians just accept this as part of the plan, even if the Jews did kill him?

I’m confused.

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… and these people up in Denver add absolutely nothing at all relevant to that debate.

I think the globe & Mail was right: this movie has gained so much support because many religious groups who felt like they mostly existed on the fringes of media attention feel like the movie brings them into the forefront of things. It’s no surprise that some people with less than nice beliefs about the Jews would want to horn in on the action.

Look at it this way: these people have nothing to lose from this. No one would join them anyway given their anti-semetism except for fellow anti-semites, but these are few and hard to come by. So this free national advertising gives them a forum and means to find the few people they need to get in contact with. Everyone else’s scorn and anger means nothing to them. So it’s a win-win, from their perspective. Better to just ignore them than trumpet them.

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I watched some TV show on . . . NBC? CBS? about this the other night. I’m sure someone else out there saw it, too.

Here’s how they say it happened. Sorry, but I forget names. I forget names something fierce. And details. But you’ll get the idea, I hope. I’ve forgotten a lot of my Roman history.

Setting: Jewish city in Roman Republic thingy. Big party where there’s been a history of rioting. A lot of tension in the city.
Main char’s:
P: The “governor,” appointed by ceasar. Cranky, because of living in his seaside mansion, he has to come to this city to watch out for riots for a few weeks.
C: High priest of the town - one step below P, but can be fired.
J: Jesus, obviously, but I decided to stick with letters. Comes in proclaiming to be King of all Jews.

Right, so J comes to town, working everyone into a frenzy because he claims to be the King of all Jews. P sees a bad thing in the making. C also keeps an eye on him. Finally arrest him for being a rabble-rouser, or something.

May or may not have held a trial - the TV told me a trial would have been unlikely. C hands him over to P, I forget what his suggestion was. P is offended by J’s calling himself the “King” of Jews, because the Jews already have a leader - the Ceasar.

The “asking the Jews if they want him back” thing may or may not have happened, but if P really did ask the crowd, he would’ve been toying with them because he’s already made his decision, and he doesn’t have to answer to anyone but the Ceasar.

J carries the crossbeam (not the whole cross). May have have a mocking thorn of crowns (So you’re the king of the Jews, eh? Here’s your crown!) put on him, maybe not. Crucified, yadda yadda.

Problem with the New Testament is that the earliest part of it was written, what, 30 years (I forget, exactly) after Jesus already died? Not a great historical source.
I’m so tired of the “Jews killed Jesus” arguement that I could puke. And I’m not even religious.

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Pudunk. Denver. The difference is…?

:smiley:

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And on a slightly more serious note, are you aware that Colorado has an extremely high concentration of conservative organizations, including some very conservative, even fundamentalist, Christian groups.

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I don’t know why Jesus’ death is still regarded as controversial. I mean, Lenny Bruce has already confessed (excerpt from thehotbutton.com):

"In one bit, he took the rap: “A lot of people say to me, ‘Why did you kill Christ?’ I dunno … it was one of those parties, got out of hand, you know. We killed him because he didn’t want to become a doctor, that’s why we killed him.” He had a Jew leaving a note reading, “I did it. Morty.”

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You do not cause criminal damage to a packed temple on one of the holiest days of the year and subsequently justify it using ambiguous quasi-revolutionary rhetoric in a state occupied by a brutal empire unless you wish to get into deep, deep trouble.

Jesus essentially committed suicide.

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Please don’t take offense to what I’m about to ask. I don’t know very much about Christianity, I’m asking this question seriously:

(forget ‘who’ killed Jesus, for a sec)

Isn’t it a good thing that “He” was crucified? I thought “He died for your sins”. How would that whole thing have worked out if “He” died of old age? And doesn’t the “Resurrection” mean a lot? Without “Him” being crucified, “He” wouldn’t have resurrected, no?

Concerning that church in Denver, putting up a sign saying “Jews killed the Lord Jesus”, I think B’nai B’rith should put up a sign next to it saying, “You’re Welcome”.

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Oh, for goodness sake, where do they get this nonsense? We use the blood of Muslim children to make borscht—we grind up their bones for the cookies. I mean, how would you use blood in cookies?

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The orthodox belief is that Jesus was true God and true man, completely both at the same time. So He would feel pain, and fear at what He knew was going to happen (as shown in the Garden) even as He knew it was God’s will that it happen. So yes, the salvation of man came about through his sacrifice. I was raised Catholic in the 70s and the idea of the Jews killing Jesus was never harped on, even as the Gospel “let His blood be on our hands and the hands of our children” was read. I understand, though, that this was a change from many years of prayers about “the perfidious Jews”. Now the prayer is:

Let us pray for God’s ancient people, the Jews, the first to hear his word: for greater understanding between Christian and Jew; for the removal of our blindness and bitterness of heart; that God will grant us grace to be faithful to his covenant and to grow in the love of his name. (Silent prayer.) Lord, hear us. Lord, graciously hear us. Lord God of Abraham, bless the children of your covenant, both Jew and Christian; take from us all blindness and bitterness of heart, and hasten the coming of your kingdom, when Israel shall be saved, the Gentiles gathered in, and we shall dwell together in mutual love and peace under the one God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

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I live about two miles from here, where decades of notes were collated into what became a well-known book about a hundred and fifty years ago.

This thread is bizarre to me - I mean who, in the 21st century, gets into a fight over that weird, trite old concept ‘religion’ . . .