Antifa

We posted within a minute of each other. Does my post #14 answer this question, or would you like additional information?

I can’t use Twitter or Facebook at work, so I’ll check them out later. The amateur vids weren’t very informative and they certainly weren’t impartial in their “reporting”. The Mother Jones article was interesting, considering that it was a good exposé on right-wing agitators in general.

How about their website, or some actual news stories about what they have done that so annoy you?

I don’t know if they have a traditional website aside from Twitter and Facebook accounts, so you might be out of luck there. Did you read the NYT article that Shodan posted? Are you allowed to read the NYT at work? If not, I’ll quote some bits here:

What they have done to annoy me is try to use violence against their political opponents, and as a tool to quash free speech.

Where I’m from it’s meant as anarchist groups demonstrating against and effecting violence specifically against neo-nazis and white supremacists. But as I tried to explain, there is no such thing as the Antifa, capital letter. In europe, there’s also a lot of overlap between antifa-groups and peaceful anarchist groups, demonstraters and squatting groups not directly related to antifa.

So I guess I feel the op and subsequent posts by HurricaneDikta is overly generalizing of a very loose, flat “organization”, comprised of distantly related, often quite different, groups who might share an open network and sometimes organize things in concert.

HurricaneDitka, have you had any form of contact with anyone associated with any antifa, or a similar, group? I have, and they vary a lot.

So we’re going that route, are we? I already said that I didn’t know about them, you say they opposed Ann Coulter, I say “sounds good to me”, and you give with the rest of the story and the gotcha question “Is threatening her with harm for speaking a big plus in your book?” :rolleyes:

“What do you think about that German Shepard that barked at those kids?”
“I don’t about that event, but I see no problem”
“That dog attacked those poor kids and sent two of them to the hospital! Is this something you actually approve of??”

Ok, so… the Mother Jones article clearly portrays the alt-right as the primary aggressors, and otherwise, it seems like random chaotic violence. So unless you are prepared to argue that protesting a protest is in and of itself, fascist, (or ‘‘horrible’’) I remain unconvinced that American Antifa is the work of the devil.

Generally speaking, I believe a group should be judged by what a majority of its members do, as well as what it officially sanctions and how it responds to acts of violence within its own community. Do you have evidence that violence against Ann Coulter was officially sanctioned by Antifa? I’ll settle for evidence that the alleged terrorists were members of Antifa, and that Antifa did nothing in response.

I’ve just read what they’ve posted on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, etc. I can agree with “they vary a lot”. Let’s direct our conversation towards those “Antifa” groups that are threatening violence in response to Ann Coulter speaking at UC Berkeley this week.

Any comment about the vids you posted showing the far right doing the same thing(that bit where the guy in the “Jesus” jacket kicks the shit out of the unidentified victim on the ground comes to mind), or the Mother Jones article you linked to that reported on the words and actions of the far right?

Very good then. Any person or group of persons that threatens violence in response to a person spewing ignorant nonsense is in the wrong. Violence is not an acceptable means to quash ideas we don’t agree with. I’m going to assume you’re equally outraged by the violence of the alt-right toward Antifa. However you don’t seem to be asking anyone’s opinion on the alt-right group who protested that day.

Antifa and other groups, you mean? Can you think of anything at all the Ann Coulter has said and/or advocated concerning violence to others?

Personally, I’m against that sort of thing, even when it concerns a vile creature such as Ann Coulter or Milo Whatshisface. I hope I haven’t stepped on any toes and don’t lose my SDMB knee-jerk liberal credentials.

Ah, so we’re only talking about those antifascists. :rolleyes:

Oh, and the saddest thing about that article you posted:

“I don’t really like to think of it as a murder. It was terminating Tiller in the 203rd trimester. … I am personally opposed to shooting abortionists, but I don’t want to impose my moral values on others.” --on the murder of Kansas abortion doctor George Tiller, FOX News interview, June 22, 2009

“If I’m going to say anything about John Edwards in the future, I’ll just wish he had been killed in a terrorist assassination plot.”

“We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens’ creme brulee. That’s just a joke, for you in the media.”

“We need to execute people like (John Walker Lindh) in order to physically intimidate liberals.”

“We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity.”

“My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building.”

“I think the government should be spying on all Arabs, engaging in torture as a televised spectator sport, dropping daisy cutters wantonly throughout the Middle East and sending liberals to Guantanamo.”

This is what I hoped / wanted to see: that there is still a consensus against violence in response to speech.

ETA: maybe “consensus” is too strong a word

Yes. The Berkeley riot definitely had violence coming from both sides.

ETA: I think it bodes ill for our civil society when both sides start gearing up with home-made riot gear for their protests and marches. The next evolution is probably more of the John Brown Gun Club and pretty soon we’re like Venezuela.

the consensus is that it is wrong from both sides of the equation, as shown by the links you provided.
Are you part of this consensus?

The only thing I saw was a female Antifa protester punching a male neo-Nazi, who punched her back. The neo-Nazis (and a troubling number of online folks) seemed to find that fine and were gleeful about it.

I have a problem with both actions, just to be clear.

Protest all you like. Believe anything you like. Do not beat each other up, you’ll just bring the cops down on everyone and lose public support for the right to protest.

Yes. Protests / marches / rallies should be non-violent. Right-wingers shouldn’t throw stuff at / pepper spray / hit leftists because they’re saying stuff they dislike and leftists shouldn’t throw stuff at / pepper spray / hit right-wingers because they’re saying stuff they dislike.